Many libraries expect the keyswitch to occur during the note, but Dorico only has on and off events. In those libraries they have to be manually drawn in to work, instead of triggered by the articulation and expression map. Not a deal killer, but was just curious how this library was designed.
Mute options look great! I would have loved to see some of the brass ranges extended a bit, but those are probably better than most other options.
I know this thread is a bit “old”, but I took the opportunity to find out what’s possible with my Vintage Big Band Library, also because it hasn’t been mentioned here yet.
But this is not an out-of-the-box export, but there is a ‘small’ adjustment including mastering behind it.
Maybe someone is interested in how it might sound.
I know it’s not perfect.
Some articulations are also missing from the library. Bari and bass trombone don’t have any usable ones at all, the falls are often much too long, and so on… I also found out that I prefer to mix than to write arrangements
Very good arrangement, Fred btw…
Thanks for posting this! I saw John Barron is developing expression maps for it too, or at least he mentioned it in his “Build a Big Band” Discover Dorico session a couple of weeks ago. I hadn’t really checked that library out much.
Thanks! It was just a quick little file with lots of scoops, falls, doits, etc. to test with.
I saw this session…
I already made some expression maps for that library. That’s not a big issue.
The problems are… no doits for trombones… tried to paint some for pitch wheel… sounds rather poor. As mentioned, falls are too long for eight notes. So I used lip bends which are only available for the 1st trumpet. But 1st trumpet sounds a little thin. For trombones I tried stab instead… no legatos of course… no scoops, used pitch wheel… just to mention a few problems.
I think I heard some intonation problems on lower velocity samples, also the different sounds between layers are a problem. Sometimes you just don’t hear some notes. I got rid of that problem with limiters on the bari and also on 2 trumpets… but still it’s not as perfect as I wished.
I know the panning and balance between the sections need some tweaks.
But I think they captured the sound pretty well.
You will find the articulations on the webpage.
I have this library quite a while, but did not work with it. So your template was a very good help for checking it out.
Thanks a lot for that.
Some days ago the V Horns saxophones came out.
Maybe I’ll try them too, but I think they sound far too soft for that style, and no jazz articulations also…
I actually bought them already to take advantage of the early pricing, but haven’t had a chance to play with them at all. (3 days recording last week, overdue commission, teaching, etc.) I’m hoping to have a day next week to play around with them and look into making maps for them.
Somewhat related to this thread, the Google Doodle is pretty awesome today! (Tito’s Ran Kan Kan)
Yes, cool doodle
I know this stress from the time before I retired as a music teacher. Now I thought I had more time for the really important things… at least I thought so…
That’s why I bought and tried out the VHorns saxophones. They still have a lot of bugs. Various settings are not saved in the presets, or change without having changed anything. Alto Sax 2 notes hang after a pitch bend, just to name a few.
In Dorico they sound like a kazoo ensemble (in my opinion the SWAM saxophones also sound like kazoos). In Cubase you can increase the air with the logic editor and add some attack and use a match EQ and then, with a lot of imagination, they sound almost like bad saxophones
Here is an example with Dorico:
And here an example from Cubase with more air and a match EQ:
I think I’ll wait for a sale at Chris Hein. Because you asked once… I think I at least know who played the first trumpet at the WDR samples. There is an audio example called Andy’s trumpet. I used to play with Andy a long time ago, or let’s say I had the chance to play in the same big band. He is such a great trumpet player and musician…
I’m ‘just’ a guitar player btw…
And for the VSL saxophones. I also have the old VI version. They have extra falls and kind of growls. But that doesn’t help much because you would have to use the strech function, but Dorico VST inserts don’t have any information about tempo or bar yet, and it may be a long time before that gets built in.
Again, I think the CHH have huge potential, the sample I provided was without applying any proper expression map or any kind of editing. Meaning, none of the giant amount of articulations was even used, all you can hear in those samples is the standard legato patch.
If someone would make the effort to write an XM for this library, I think it would really swing!
Yes, I agree with CHH as far as I’ve heard and read from the demos on the website…old but good.
Unfortunately I never heard your demo because your link leads to a OneDrive file that doesn’t seem to exist anymore.
I would like to add that the VHorns saxphones don’t sound bad in general. I tried them with a MIDI guitar and the result wasn’t even that bad, even without a wind controller. However, the existing bugs are still a bit annoying. You record something, then sometimes you have to reload the sound because there is no signal anymore etc…
In Dorico, without slides, bends or other embellishments, they just sound very artificial.
But that’s also true for other libraries because Dorico isn’t really a DAW.
Well, I made this several years ago, it’s just a loop from EZkeys split up into 3 voices and sent to CHH, I think I remember triggering a few articulations in Cubase, including staccato and the shake in the end. Not too bad for 15 minutes of work…
Also, yes, I understood that as well, but I thought I’d re-post the only example I have at the moment…
The rendition I posted of FredGUnn’s piece was really pretty crappy (that’s why I probably deleted it!), so I might in a quiet moment take the time and make a XM for the CH horns myself.
I’ll keep y’all posted!
I understand. XMs can be a lot of work, but it’s always interesting how it sounds right away. I’ll wait to see if there’s a Black Friday deal and if I buy it I’ll for sure make an expression map and post it here.
I read this thread and discovered Vhorns, I bought the VHorns Saxes and they sounds amazing!!
To my hears, head and shoulder above anything else, especially considering the price ( btw I have Swam, Glory Days, SHP).
However, I was a bit reluctant to switch to their products for big band sounds after I read your post about the missing Bass Trombone, so I chatted with acoustic samples and they confirmed they are working on other brass instruments, including a Bass Trombone, they just can’t confirm any date yet.
But in the meantime they suggested to use the transpose feature with a -12 with the tenor trb so to have those C1-Eb2 notes, I know, not the same thing but at least there is a workable workaround to get those lower notes and maintain the same flexibility of the libraries.
For me that’s it, is ‘the’ new standard for the time being
Now time to work on those XM…
Just wanted to mention the new Tempo Sync feature in D4.3 means it just got a lot easier to trigger drum samples in Dorico for mockups. Here’s a quick playalong file straight out of Dorico using an IK Hammond B-3X and Straight Ahead Jazz Drums.
I imagine there are a lot more possible drum options to explore now for mockups handled directly in Dorico.
Here’s a big band chart I just finished using Session Horns Pro; mostly using expression maps from Dorico, but I play back through Ableton Live and added the pitch bends for doits after thebfirst shake manuallt there, along with applying the pause at the end.
If anyone knows how to do the pitch bends in an expression map would be very grateful to know! Everlong.mp3 - Google Drive
Just wanted to mention that Skybox Audio has their “Hammers + Waves - Electric” library on a Black Friday sale for only $58, down from $129. I had been using the free Spitfire LABS Wurli, but didn’t have a very good Rhodes so I grabbed it. I guess the company has only been around a year or so, but the Rhodes and Wurli included in the library sounded pretty good to me, especially at that price!
If anyone wants to hear something specific, send me a MIDI file or post a request. (I admittedly haven’t done many Rhodes or Wurli transcriptions.) Here’s a George Cables tune straight out of D4.3 using all default library settings.
Chris Hein Horns should be on sale until November 30th.
I got the pro version yesterday. The compact version doesn’t have enough articulations for Dorico.
I was just trying out a few articulations with the expression map. Didn’t have much time to fine tune.
Here are the results with @FredGUnn’s demo project: