Let's take a step back for a moment...

Steinberg Lounge
#1

It occurred to me while reading through some of the rants by users on this forum that we have become somewhat spoiled in a short period of time. Let’s take a look at where we used to be not too long ago…

The Beatles used 8 tracks to record some of their best stuff. 8. Lots of bouncing. :smiley:

We used to have to buy MORE cables, MORE Patchbays, use MORE electricity if we wanted more tracks, busses, effects, etc.

Before I get off on my own rant, my point is that we have it pretty good by comparison in just a short period of time. The software engineers are trying desperately to rocket us ahead light years from where we’ve come. All these new features are really not necessary. They’re just icing on the the creative cake if you will. The most important thing is the music. I’ve heard some AMAZING demos on a 4 track analog tape recorder.

Don’t get me wrong. The tools we have are amazing and very helpful. I love them just like the next person.

Let’s use the tools we HAVE and stop griping about the tools we don’t. Making music IS the goal, after all :wink:

#2

No they didn’t.They used 4 tracks to record their best stuff. And so did Bruce Springsteen! The Nebraska album was recorded on 4-track Tascam portastudio.

People are spoiled! They keep asking for:

No … they’re not amazing. They are INCREDIBE!

Indeed! At least it’s for me and you.

#3

Let’s take a step back for a moment…

All well and good… but not if you’re standing on the edge of a cliff. :laughing:

#4

I totally agree that DAWs are gifts from heaven. They make life as a songwriter SOOOOO much easier, that said:… :smiling_imp:

We are not spoiled. It isn’t wrong to request any features that may contribute to our workflow. The progress is inevitable in the DAW market; and FR’s will help them to become ever more powerful. While it seems that everyone is expressing pessimism on the forums, I know that folks like myself get on Cubase daily to make music and watch it load thinking: “Wow. This is amazing.” This software allows us to use cheats and algorithms that equip us to do the impossible as well as nearly unlimited tracks and busses that we may be required at any time. I see what the point of this topic is: an attempt to take our focus off what Cubase doesn’t have and onto the handy features we already do. And I agree: Cubase is AMAZING!! Nothing wrong with FR’s though. :wink:

#5

:nerd:

What pray tell is the point of a mfg hosting a discussion forum for it’s product if not (at least partly) for people to also ask for what they want in future versions? To discuss world hunger? :laughing:

If people didn’t actually like the software or couldn’t make music with it, they’d probably not have purchased it. If people didn’t keep pushing about, say, better multitrack drum editing, and just went away when someone told them to “just make music and stop complaining”, would it even be there now?

These are the questions that keep me up at night. :mrgreen:

Signed: Patiently waiting to see what Cubase 7 is.

P.S. If I hear that Beatles 4-track story one more time I swear I’ll puke. :slight_smile:

#6

Did you know that the Beatles used to record on a piece of wire 300 miles long…

#7

Things would run much smoother if the rants stayed at “I would like to see…” and didn’t go through to “We the people demand this professional feature as without it our workflow (laughs up sleeve) is up the chute…” :mrgreen:

And Phil Spector only ever recorded in mono.

#8

+1!
And: “not having this feature (which is doable with Cubase with just two mouse clicks instead of one) FORCES me to use XXXX”.

#9

Ok, I missed that post. I know there are a few (well at least one) regular apologists here but can you quote me where anyone ever said two mouse clicks instead of one forces them to use XXX? You capitalized “forces” so I assume you didn’t just make that up out of thin air.

So show me that rant - and examples that they are common enough around here to to complain about the complaining - and I’ll agree with you… that saying such a thing is silly and juvenile. +1

If I list my personal FR’s… things that I’ve requested for like 10 years, things that I prefer, I get the same reaction…“just go make music”. But I don’t make music. I’m an engineer, not a musician. Been one for 30 years. Those requests are to Steinberg, not to forum members. Telling me what you think I don’t need is irrelevant. Just saying “I don’t need it personally.” would be sufficient.

What it often seems to be (imo, mmv) is people so attached to their software they simply can’t stand anyone saying anything bad about it… unless they happen to agree. And they can only see things from their own limited perspective.

Anyway, it would probably help if Steinberg had an actual forum dedicated to feature requests where those things could be discussed without the high S/N ratio of the perpetually offended.

Best regards. I hope some of that makes sense.

#10

Anyway, it would probably help if Steinberg had an actual forum dedicated to feature requests where those things could be discussed without the high S/N ratio of the perpetually offended.

That I would welcome. I find the most offended (aand usually offensive) posters are the ones who request features as they react very badly to it being explained that their pet “improvement” may not happen and why.

Most of the feature requests are very badly thought through and when one explains that there may actually be a downside to anythng all hell breaks loose from the “artiste” whose “workflow” the pet feature-lacking’s absence is guilty of impeding.
All it needs is for those who suggest improvements is to get real about them half the time. Then a discussion can happen instead of a slanging match. And maybe any new features and improvements will actually happen and the developers will not look at the forum and think “Bloody kids again!”.

ps: The most rude of the feature suggesters also seem to be serial feature suggesters and regular whingers too. :mrgreen: And aren’t they also the regular "Me too"ers and "+1"ers as well? :laughing:

#11

Maybe. I’m not sure it’s the users place to tell other users that though… unless they have an inside line to the developers and they know that for sure. It’s easier to just say… “Well, I don’t personally need it or care either way.” and just move on isn’t it?

If a person has a direct line to the developers and can speak to that factually - whether something will be added or not, and why or why not - they should just say so. Otherwise it’s just pure speculation, something else to argue about.

But sure (I agree) … it’s the net … and sure… there are some random “kids” on the net screaming for stuff. True. :slight_smile: No doubt about that.

Maybe there are people here who beta test or whatever and who actually know those things for sure and can’t speak because of NDA’s or similar… dunno. But a lot of it sounds like pure speculation to me. If they are saying “It won’t happen.” as a factual matter, they’d be kinda breaking the NDA though wouldn’t they?

I guess what I’m saying is that oftentimes “explanations” of something that may or may not happen aren’t (or don’t appear to be) factual, they’re just additional personal opinions… causing even more debate.

Joe: Cubase really needs X, I just swtiched over from Y and I really, really miss X. Sometimes I go back to Y because of X not being in Cubase, it saves me some time.

Jack: I don’t personally care if they add it or not. Don’t need it, wouldn’t use it. Good luck to you anyway.

What exactly is so hard about that? :laughing:

#12

Maybe. I’m not sure it’s the users place to tell other users that though… unless they have an inside line to the developers and they know that for sure. It’s easier to just say… “Well, I don’t personally need it or care either way.” and just move on isn’t it?

It certainly is if one feels that the person suggesting improvements may be wasting their time. It is usually the case that posters with suggestions and complaints is somehow allowed to tell others that the “improvement” must be possible. Must we assume they have an inside line? What’s good for one member is good for another.

Rarely will any of us have an inside line but there is a principle called “common sense” reasoning that can always be applied.
We also expect that professional as we all profess to be means that reasonable statements are not taken in an unprofessional manner. Sadly I see far too many examples of immature ranting which makes the Cubase forum look like a schoolkid’s joke. I can also imagine that a lot of studio customers (as many claim to have) who have visited this site may well, on occasion, ask a studio what they use and on hearing “Cubase.” they go elsewhere as they think it’s a toy.

People come here for information on a serious piece of kit. They deserve serious answers, serious dicussion and serious advice. The “We need another button to save us a couple of mouse strokes.” just doesn’t cut it as a serious, professionally thought out, request. It always looks like a bedroom pipe-dream.

ps: There’s the “Waiting for the day” thread (and my one answer alludes to the way he asks and not what, I don’t agree with it all for reasons outlined above) however, you’re all thinking it through and discussing points and contributing even though there’s confusion at times on the point of view. At one point you counter someone’s assumption, which is correct, but I wouldn’t dream of telling you that because you didn’t agree with a point that you should butt out. I don’t expect to be told what to do either. Same as you.

#13

You give a kid a toy and they are happy.
You take their toy and bring it in for upgrades and give it back and they are happy.
A day later the kid realizes there are a bunch of broken parts on the toy that used to work.
The kid complains, then cries then pouts waiting for a few years for the broken bits to be fixed.

#14

Wait. I owned a Tascam 688 8-track. My equipment was better than Bruce’s? :open_mouth:

#15

Well, that’s obviously not the only reason but sure, it’s one reason. :neutral_face: The other reason is to “give” information to the company who’s selling you a product ? … information that may be related to how you currently feel about it and what you may expect from it going forward. I actually think they would want to know that… at least I hope they would.

As to “serious answers”, I agree, but you can’t answer questions about (or even intelligently discuss) something that you actually don’t even know about right? I entered that thread with the intention to help because (apparently) nobody knew what he was talking about. I think clarity helps in any discussion so I tried to add some clarity to it. I mean, it’s perfectly fine to disagree but it’s usually better to actually know exactly what it is you’re disagreeing with… and (of course) not everyone has the same level of communication skills… so there’s also that.

Anyway, I don’t have any personal FR’s that haven’t already been made by someone else, but if I ever do I’ll be sure to preface them and frame them completely and correctly… because… well, Cubase forum is a really serious place and only that will do.

Thanks Conman. I know this is “your place”, your domain so if you really feel the need to have the last word, please do. I’ll refrain from extending the cycle. This is your house after all.

Best regards my friend.

#16

Thanks Conman. I know this is “your place”, your domain so if you really feel the need to have the last word, please do. I’ll refrain from extending the cycle. This is your house after all.

Why this? We have different opinions from time to time. So? I don’t say “This is your house.”
Ridiculous and a bit immature. Smacks of petulance.

Please converse without innuendo my friend. Nobody wins or loses here.

Steinberg, like most manufacturers, takes it’s recommendations off prime users who give practical breakdown of problems and features. Studios and dealers that they know and trust personally. Like washing machine makers. They may spot some suggestions from here but I would say not many. Tops I can only think of about 5 things acknowledged from here, probably two were acted upon.
So it would be better to have it’s own section in my opinion. I agree with your good suggestion.
But about suggestions. Have you or have you known anyone suggest improvements to someone’s business that actually do get listened to, even if they’re old friends or family? Not many I’ll bet. It’s as risky doing it here as in the real world.
Make a suggestion and ten more come back at you. :mrgreen:
I doubt I’ve had the last word. :mrgreen:

#17

so your telling me that tascam portostudio 4 track i bought last week is out of date technology already , ffs there we go i thought i was going to be ground breaking !

#18

I produced my first “album” on my 688 without any knowledge of music production whatsoever. I basically had a number of ideas that I put on tape and then mixed down to cassette and then gave out to friends that I normally wouldn’t buy gifts for as a Christmas gift.

I still have that master mixdown tape but no way to play it. Thankfully, I have a good memory so if I ever want to re-record them (like I did with Grad Student Blues) I can do it with little difficulty recollecting how the song was created.

#19

And an unusually short post for me.

:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

#20

I hat cats… :stuck_out_tongue: .

Mauri.