I’d like to set up a command that randomizes the rhythm of the notes within the cycle range in the key editor. But it’s not possible to do that in the LE is it? Only with pitches, right?
There are several ways that Greg covers in this video:
thanks for the help.
Unfortunately he doesn’t set up a command to randomize the notes in the logical editor, he sets up a command to change the length of the notes only, but the notes stay in the same position.
I’ll be very grateful if anyone can tell me 1 Can randomizing position when it comes to rhythm be done at all? And if yes, what’s the exact command I have to plot in in the action column to make it happen?
It’s not quite clear from your description what you want to randomize.
Are you looking to randomize a Note’s Start Position by small amounts to mimic the timing variations that naturally occur when physically playing an Instrument?
Or do you want to randomize a rhythmic pattern so that a pattern like:
X - - - X - - - X - - - X - - -
gets transformed into something like:
X - X - - - - - X - - - - - X -
Randomize a pattern
I don’t think Greg selected Position in the MLE, but you can also select Position as something to randomize.But that only works after the notes are written.
If you mean auto generate random notes like a Mod Synth or Bitwig:
After some tinkering and editing this post a few times… (Thanks for the puzzle it was fun, even if this isn’t what you wanted.)
How about this:
These are MIDI Inserts in order.
Step Designer - Simply makes a note play every 1/4 note. Nothing more.
Transformer - Randomizes note, and velocity . Notes between D1 and D5. (I don’t know why it doesn’t accept “D1” or “D5” in this random field value. ) The velocity only goes up to 80 intentionally.
Transformer - Makes the velocity 0 for a quarter of the notes, so only 3/4 of the notes play.
MIDI Modifier as an insert And here is the missing piece of the puzzle. This modifier randomizes the Position and Length in real time, and restricts the played notes to D Phrygian.
Maybe this could have all been done more simply but I’m happy with the result now. Saved as a track preset 
thanks a lot for the effort! Not really what I’m looking for though, like you said. I hope Steinberg will add a Value 4 that allows you to do this.
I’m already using the Logical editor to randomize notes in an existing melody e.g. and it’s a great, great creative tool for making variations. If the L.E. could do the same with rhyhtm it would be so cool.
It was fun. I had tried before and given up, so it was neat to get it done, and have a preset. I’m more into realizing what I hear in my head, than the random thing, but I am glad that I now know how to do it.
I’m curious though, what parameter is it that you want randomized? What is the value 4 you are hoping to acquire? More specifically, can you describe the difference between the options this configurations provides, and what you were looking for? Or better yet, could you describe the interface that you would want?
Maybe a ‘Value 4’ isn’t needed to make what I want happen, I don’t know, I’m far from an expert on the logical editor.
Try making up a melody of a bar or two and then set up the logical editor to make a variation of the pitches within the same scale. You’ll get some very musical and useful ideas a lot of the time, things you would never have thought of otherwise (of course they have to be edited usually, but it’s great for finding new motifs and things like that). I want the same with rhythms. Ideally both making brand new patterns and note lengths at the push of one key.
I find that the results I get with the midi modifiers and step designer are not inspiring or very musical at all, it’s just a random mess every time.
I see.
So, what I did above is really just to provide a real time generated version of what can be done in the MLE. I don’t think there is any missing parameter there, you would just have to modify the variables used. So I haven’t provided anything but the generation and real time nature of what can already be done in the MLE if you already have the “performance”, and you are modifying it.
Okay TLDR here: Have you tried applying the position randomness in the MLE, and then re-quantizing the result to a groove?
What I did not include there, is that as you send the data out of the “Random Generator” track you could also quantize the result, and imagine sending the result to an instrument track with Groove Quantization on. You would get something more stable, less, well, random. If you played with the parameters I have set up, then you could make it more and more stable.
You can do the same thing with the MLE and applying the Groove Quantization after the fact. There is no 4th variable to be had here, you can set position to random in the MLE already.
I think it’s just that once you open that much randomness up it needs to be tamed by something, to make it useful in the way you are thinking. That way is likely taking the groove from a performance or rhythm, and then applying that groove to a melody you played. That can be done, and you can use different grooves and get variations on the same melody.
Then also introduce randomness to the pitch. Or whatever, a little bit at a time to see what you get.
I wasn’t ever interested in the random thing, but I think I will take this Random Generator track and send it to an instrument , and have one more transformation before it hits the instrument to quantize the result to a groove. It will be a fun toy to play with.
All of this is so much easier in Reaktor. or Bitwig or whatever, but it’s still fun to do it in Cubase proper.
So I think the missing component isn’t a variable that you are missing, but a step in the process of re-quantizing so that you provide more structure. A feature to allow randomization of the groove that you are quantizing to, would be interesting, especially if the grooves were labeled by genre.
I think maybe this is what you are looking for, described in an overly nerdy way.
Quantization wont do it. As for taming the randomeness, like I said when I use randomization I tame it by using little cool fragments of what it comes up with, then I develop them etc. Or the L.E will create a brand new melody that with a little modification is somehting that goes hand in hand with the original melody still cause its a variation.
It’s fine, I can just vary the rhythm a bit myself here and there and then hit randomize pitches, it’s still cool as hell
I think a key difference between these two situations is that when changing the pitch it is constrained to a musical scale. But with the rhythm a note can be at any allowed position independent of how musical that sounds. It’s more like if you randomized the pitch to any chromatic note it would also sound more like a random mess.
I suspect in @oqion 's example Step Designer if instead of every 1/4 Note (or 1/8th, 1/16th, whatever) it were a distinctive (but busy) pattern then the derivative patterns generated from it would sound more musical.
1 Like
The example above provides a nearly random set of notes in D Phrygian in which there is on average 3 notes per bar. The length and position of those notes is random, so that sometimes they all overlap and sometimes they are played distinct. They are NOT played in rhythm.
I sent the direct output of this MIDI track to the stock preset of Pigments. I wouldn’t say that it’s Cagey. It is more random than that.
However, once the result was quantized, it did take on a more musical quality as one would expect.
By varying the parameters you get different effects or feels. I’m very pleased with it as a toy.
Parameters:
- Number of notes per bar - Change the segmentation in the Step Designer. It’s set to 1/4 notes in the example which is of course 4 random notes per bar in 4/4.
- Range of Notes - In the first transformer change the range of Value 1
- Velocity and fraction of generated notes played. Set the velocity range in first transformer, and then trim the notes played in the second Transformer by setting some set of those notes velocities to 0. In the example the velocity goes between 20 and 80, and 3/4 of the notes are played giving 3 notes per bar on average.
- Position of Notes - from the segmentation in 1. It is set to the maximum here, but taming this down starts to change the behavior to be more melodic.
- Length of Notes - This changes the note to be greater than or less than the length defined in 1.
- Quantize - Not shown here, but you can quantize it however you like and you get something more musical.
- Probable distribution of notes - Changing the pattern of notes in Step Designer can also weight the selection of notes more to a particular part of the bar. So like in 3 where the filtering out of notes is random, by taking notes out of the Step Designer it provides a distribution.
If you take out every other note, then the number of notes per bar will be halved. But you can add greater probability of notes being in one part of the bar, by where you place those notes in the Step Designer, and lowering the spread in the position a bit.
Note: Randomizing the pitch of the notes in the Step Designer does nothing as the first Transformer removes the pitch and replaces it with a random pitch. However, you can change both of those conditions and get something more “organized”.
So @raino, yes, if you change the pattern in the Step Designer, but also add quantization, and tame down the randomness in the position a bit, it does start to sound more musical.
It’s actually a lot of fun to play with.
I think a key difference between these two situations is that when changing the pitch it is constrained to a musical scale. But with the rhythm a note can be at any allowed position independent of how musical that sounds. It’s more like if you randomized the pitch to any chromatic note it would also sound more like a random mess.
The ideal would be this:
1 Have a preset in the logical editor that keeps the note lengths and the number of notes in my two bar melody or however long it is the same and rearranges the notes rhythmically using 16th notes, 8ths, triplets and such. I don’t want the LE to just place them anywhere. I want a variation of something I’ve already written like with the randomize pitch function
2: Have a preset that completely randomizes the rhythm.
I don’t think you have to be Elon Musk to program something like that. When you can randomize all the parameters in a synth at the push of a button why not this Steinberg? Come on, get it together.
Ah, I finally get it. Very cool! (and obvious now that I get it).
I wonder if any of the various randomizing VSTs will do that?
What would you expect from this device if you gave it two bars and in that two bars was a note that spanned two bars? Or a note that started before or lasted longer than the two bars?
What if you had half note chords with leading notes, would you expect the result to also have leading notes?
One could write a Kontakt script that would read for the number of bars you indicated, and then write the same notes randomly based on the notes that it read.
But I think that what you expect is that there is only ever a single note playing at once (monophonic), for the input and the output, and that every span of beats in the output is filled by either a rest or note from the input. Is that right?
That would be a slightly more complex script, but also could be done.
[It would be so much easier in Lua, but HALion doesn’t have MIDI out.]
The real complexity comes when it is polyphonic. So how the monophonic device would treat polyphonic input would also be more complex, or simply not give you what you would expect.
Blockquote What would you expect from this device if you gave it two bars and in that two bars was a note that spanned two bars? Or a note that started before or lasted longer than the two bars?
I’d hit my short cut key and try again probably
Blockquote What if you had half note chords with leading notes, would you expect the result to also have leading notes?
No
Check out MIDIbot by Robby Kilgore
thanks, but that wont do it either. I’ll have to wait til Steinberg gets it together
Riffer 3 vst is an excellent ranomizer.
Riffer 3 vst is an excellent ranomizer.
Looks interesting enough, thanks, however it can’t do the main thing I want: Make variations of an existing melody