Logical Editors

The Cubase 11 Hub now features “Cubase Secrets with Dom”. I didn’t see his Project Logical Editor video “Most Cubase Users NEVER use this feature”, but a further YouTube search might bring it up. Re the Colours section of the video: There should be a separate bracket round the ORs, otherwise the Container Type condition won’t be processed properly. It should be (Container type = Track AND (Name contains Drums OR Name Contains Hat OR Name Contains Snare OR … )). It’s basic boolean logic; a list of ORs should be nested in a separate pair of brackets. In this example, anything else titled e.g. Hat or Snare would also be affected. Agreed, the effect may be trivial in this case, but if an inexperienced User were to apply similar processing to the Track Logical editor, they would very likely see changes made that they didn’t expect or want. At that point they might well throw up their arms and never use the Logical Editor again.

I think you should report this to Dom

I’m not sure this is the place where it gets noticed…
since these are Youtube videos you can do this on YT

Thanks for answering, st10ss. I left a comment on the video, and have now sent a mail to the given contact address. Thanks for the advice. I’m not sure an established producer would pay much attention to a random correspondent. Nevertheless, misunderstanding of IF statements can be as problematic as e.g. a German learner saying “Ich bin heiß” instead of “Mir ist heiß”. Trevor

If he used something in a tutorial what is problematic, he should care…

I’m not sure it matters in this instance because there is only one condition other than the ‘name contains’ condition. All the 'Or’s reference the single top track condition.

That’s not the way conditional AND/OR combinations work. I tried it in the track Logical Editor using Audio and MIDI tracks on one of my own Projects. When I asked for
Media Type = Audio AND Name Contains Piano OR Name Contains Melody THEN Set Color to fixed value Color 8 (greenish), the Audio tracks with Piano in the Name changed to Color 8.
In addition, BOTH AUDIO AND MIDI tracks with Melody in the name changed to Color 8.
When I used
Media Type = Audio AND (Name Contains Piano OR Name Contains Melody) THEN Set Color to fixed value Color 8, ONLY the AUDIO tracks with Piano or Melody in the Name changed colour.
I tested three further variations on the theme and, each time, leaving out the brackets nesting the ORs yielded an incorrect result, with too many tracks changing colour.
Try it for yourself if you are not convinced.
To nest the ORs, click twice on the left column and introduce a single open bracket on the second line, after the AND.
Then go to the last line and change the final single bracket on the right into a double bracket.
I’ve set up some reasonably complex conditions in the track Logical Editor, and found it follows the same boolean conditional rules as BASIC, Visual BASIC, C++, VBcript etc.
That is what the (, ((, ((( and ), )), ))) in both Logical Editors are for.

Thanks again for replying, st10ss. I can only hope that Dom will read the mail.
LoveGames has suggested that nesting the ORs is not important. I repeated my own experiment and this time detailed my findings. Logic in IF statements is not the same as English logic - something I quickly found out when I started my career in I.T. (or computing as it was called then). If I didn’t pay exact attention to the structure of an IF statement I inevitably ended up with a total mess. After a while I learned to get my brackets right.

The Logical Editor tutorials I have found are hopelessly simplistic, including those from Greg Ondo (sorry). The most complex filter examples I found had Condition 1 AND Condition 2, with no ORs in sight.
The Cubase 11 Pro-Artist manual DOES show the same situation on Page 1017, giving examples of an AND/OR set-up with and without brackets round the OR.
Even that appears wrong, as in the first example the final line would pick up Audio parts containing the text “drums” as well as the MIDI parts quoted.

Hello st10ss.

Dom Sigalas did indeed reply, and constructively. Very gracious of him.
I looked up the Cubase Pro 11 Operation Manual and found similar inconsistencies.
I added a further post marked as an Issue, but am having trouble because the contact person wouldn’t accept Page numbers in the PDF Manual as a reference, but wants me to provide inline hyperlinks to the relevant paragraphs, which I have been unable to do - the best I could manage was an inevitably long verbose link not hidden under metadata. If he won’t accept that I’m stuck, and will need to look for another way to communicate the information.

It’s no skin off my nose, but more user-friendly tutorials would enable more hesitant Users to learn how to use the thing.

I can’t find anything on YouTube so far explaining the AND/OR gremlin.
There are two nice videos, one of 52 minutes and one in 3 parts totalling 27 minutes.
These cover basic Logical Editor operations very well. However, they never seem to extend beyond Condition 1 AND Condition 2 AND Condition 3.
There is one example of Condition 1 OR Condition 2, but that’s also fairly innocuous.
Neither of these structures need(s) brackets.

Oh well.


maybe this will help

https:// forums.steinberg .net/t/project-logical-editor-i-still-dont-understand-brackets-specifically-multi-brackets/592784

Thanks LoveGames. The sample offered is much too complicated for a beginner, although it would help an intermediate person. This is borne out by the puzzlement in the comments.
Interestingly, the embedded link to the Steinberg manual Using Brackets shows one of the examples which is not correct.
The second example is fine. But the first one wouldn’t work as described; the OR on the third line would return MIDI AND Audio tracks and anything else which contained the string drums (or Drums or DRUMS, as the Logical Editor string search is case-insensitive).

Sorry about all the Tabloid-style UPPERCASE and bold and italics, but I have found that these help to draw the eye to the more important bits.
I may have to amend it; I always notice mistakes on re-reading after publishing.

I have a Cubase Project with Audio and MIDI tracks whose names contain the string “melody”, and Audio and MIDI tracks whose names contain either the string “harpsichord” or the string “harmony” .
I have tried the following examples in the last 20 minutes.

This one has the same structure as Example 1 in the Operation Manual:
( Media Type is Equal Audio and
Name contains Melody or
Name contains har )
Set Color to fixed value Color 8 {light green}

The tracks which change colo(u)r are:
Audio Tracks containing “Melody”
MIDI AND Audio Tracks containing “har”

The manual says (Quote) “you can set up the Project Logical Editor to find all audio parts and events whose name contains perc as well as other MIDI parts and events whose name contains drums” . That’s NOT what happens, as Audio Parts whose names contain the string drums WOULD ALSO be selected and given the colour Color 8 (or whatever colour was chosen).

I then added the nesting brackets for the OR.

This one has the same structure as Example 2 in the Operation Manual:
( Media Type is Equal Audio and
( Name contains Melody or
Name contains har ))
Set Color to fixed value Color 8 {light green}

The tracks which change colo(u)r are:
Audio Tracks containing “Melody”
Audio Tracks containing “har”
That IS as described in the Manual.

The initial AND will always constrain the line immediately after it, in this case Name contains Melody .

In Example 1, however, because the subsequent OR is not nested with brackets, it is not tied to the AND. Therefore the third line acts on its own and delivers results without regard to Media type.

Like I said, I have just tried both structures several times, and I believe the evidence of my own eyes.


I was linking more for the full thread discussion, there are some other good examples in there gave by others

Yes, there is a discussion, sorry.

I was a programmer all my working life and know how difficult it is to simply show such things in a way that’s easily understandable.

The Cubase Operation Manual and YouTube videos would be the obvious places to tutor beginners.
Unfortunately, there are inconsistencies in some of the Cubase Operation Manual Logical Editor examples.

If the descriptions of what happens and/or the examples themselves were adjusted, and the descriptive text was re-written to be clearer to beginners, the problem would be solved. Manual writers all too often throw in examples without user-testing them properly. A good method is to present “intelligent lay-people” with examples and no help. If they can’t work out what to do then the text and/or the example must be improved until both the original testers and maybe 90% of new testers can understand how and why they work.
That checks both the logic of the examples and the clarity of the explanations.

This doesn’t seem to have happened here. Manuals are sometimes completed by people who have language skills, but don’t understand technical details. If the compilers of theses sections had known the subject they would (or at least should) have brought these issues to light.

All but one of the Logical Editor YouTube videos I have found keep it simple. They are very useful within their limits.
However, they don’t mix ANDs and ORs. The one (from Dom Sigalas) which does mix ANDs and ORs omits the nesting brackets; that’s how this whole thing started.

In an ideal world, the documentation team would subject the Logical Editor chapter to “idiot proofing” as it is rather harshly called, then correct and expand the chapter in the light of their findings.
Thanks for engaging, LoveGames.