Lost in upgrade

Cubase
1

Hello everyone

This topic may overlap with quite a few others, but at the same time, I sometimes think that all it takes is a new title and some new messages to enrich the answers with everyone’s experiences.

I currently have the following configuration

Core i7 8700K
Be Quiet Dark Rock Pro 4 cooling
32 GB of RAM (4x8)
Asus PRIME Z390-A motherboard
RME Fireface UFX II
Storage
1 x 512 GB NVME SSD for Windows 10
1 x 4 TB HDD for backup and data that does not require high speed
1 x 2 TB SATA SSD => sample libraries
1 x 2 TB NVME SSD => sample libraries
Be Quiet 601 case
Seasonic Focus Gold Plus 650 FX power supply
GT 730 graphics card

With the end of Windows 10 approaching, and the machine struggling a bit with a big VCV Rack project or a Cubase project with quite a few VI tracks, I’ve been thinking about getting a new setup for a while.

But the more I read dozens of posts on the subject, the less sure I am about anything.

I get the impression that a lot of instability and complicated experiences are shaking up the artistic world with the solutions offered by manufacturers.

Between Microsoft forcing people to change their PCs (for those who aren’t W11 compatible like me), Apple selling at crazy prices, Linux remaining limited for this type of use, Intel going through a rough patch but still popular with some (I’ve always been an Intel user myself), AMD climbing the ladder but also seeming to cause some issues with the latest generations (PACE/ILOK problem?), performance that varies greatly depending on optimization and usage (this has always been the case, but I feel like we’re in a world of music production where you have two identical configurations, one of which works perfectly and the other is good for the trash)…

Sorry for the long sentence. In short, I feel a bit lost.

And even though I know enough about it, I’m not a pro at hardware optimization beyond a certain level.

What’s more, I need to buy a new laptop at some point so I can work on the go. But I’m not sure where to set the bar. Would it be better to wait and get a MacBook Pro (but they’re really expensive), or would a mid-range PC setup be enough?

I was also wondering if, nowadays, to create large orchestral templates (at an amateur level, mind you), it would be sufficient to have a single powerful machine (with, for example, a 9950X and 96 GB of RAM), or if it would be preferable to have a slave configuration running, for example, Vienna Ensemble Pro instances (bearing in mind that there is also the issue of budget and space, which I don’t have).

Finally, until now I’ve had a minimal graphics card so that the computer is dedicated to music and not games, but for the next one I wouldn’t mind having just enough to play occasionally with good performance.

Based on all these requirements, what would you recommend?

2

I’m not sure how big your projects are, you can get a lot of bang for your buck with a Lenovo legion gaming laptop. Get AMD Ryzen with built-in graphics and use that when doing music, Nvidia GPU optimized when gaming. If you run a separate monitor it will run through the Nvidia always, but Lenovo has a hybrid mode which allows you to still use the AMD graphics in route to the HDMI or dp. That’s what has worked for me anyhow. If you don’t need a laptop, you’re way better off building your own PC.

3

Thanks for the advice!

I should have clarified that even if I need a new laptop (I currently only have old models and an iPad Pro), I think I’ll go for a tower configuration first. Laptops are becoming versatile tools for traveling, but I imagine it would be pretty difficult to have just a laptop for music production these days, right?

I’m thinking about the number of USB ports, the heat if you get a high-performance model, the size, the very high price if you get at least 64 GB of RAM, the number of NVMe SSDs you can install for storing sample libraries…

In terms of orchestral template size, let’s say that today I’m limited by the power of my machine, but ideally I’d like to have a template with all the main articulations of all the instruments loaded permanently (equivalent, for example, to the complete Spitfire BBCSO + other instruments from other brands + Omnisphere + amp simulators). It’s hard to say how many tracks that would be. I also do modular hardware synth + VCV.

But I imagine some of you are used to running these kinds of templates.

Some people really manage to get by with just a laptop (without spending $4,000)?

But obviously, since I’d also like to have a decent laptop for producing on the go, I was trying to imagine what the ideal setup would be for a desktop first, and then a laptop to complement it.

4
  1. What country are you in? If the UK, Scan computers is a no-brainer. Otherwise, go to a specialist audio computer builder.
  2. Always buy the fastest CPU, and the most RAM you can afford. It may be a bit much now, but in 2 years time it will be just average.
  3. When I buy a new PC (not often!) I try to use the HDDs/SSDs from the old one, the savings go toward that faster CPU.
5

Not at all, if you buy the right laptop. Quite the opposite, really. I have an MBP M3 Max 12p:4e 128G/8TB NVMe and it’s been my main studio rig for over a year (and a different MBP before that). Built-in audio (both in/out) supports 96k/32f, and the HP jack supports 150Ω (though my 300Ω Sennheisers sound great as well) if you want to mix on the go. It’s silent, and the only time the fans have ever even kicked on is when I’m using SpectraLayers to unmix at “extreme” quality. And the battery lasts all day. If I get tired of my studio, I can grab my favorite cans and go sit on the porch and get new visual stimuli. I’ve not tested how my SanDiskPro’s affect battery, but I’ve not needed the extended libraries on those guys with 8TB (so far). Of course, it cost a wee bit, but every bit worth it and more.

For these decisions I don’t focus on price-point, but the deltas between price-points. To me, the difference is far more worth it if it takes me from Little Rock to Shangri-La.

My new Mac Studio M3 Ultra will be here in a couple of weeks, and I’m actually going to have to think through the sync model when working on both - I’m actually considering keeping the Ultra in a more “server” role, but I know my mind won’t let me do that. I only bring that up because working between the two can get a bit tricky depending on one’s workflow.

Anyway, just my buck-o-five regarding “Studio Laptop.” I prefer it hands-down over any fixed rig.

6

100%. Benchmarks and graphs and YouTube and stress tests aside, this is strong, reality-based advice.

7

Definitely not the case any more that laptops are not powerful enough for music use. I have a macbook pro with an M2 max processor and 64Gb of ram and it’s the most capable machine I’ve had for Cubase, after decades of (usually enjoyably) assembling PCs while trying to spend as little money as possible. I think any Apple silicon mac will be noticeably faster than your older PC setup. There are also now some PC laptops coming on the market with Qualcomm Snapdragon processors - which I understand to be similarly ARM-based and cool running, like the Apple silicon range. Cubase already runs on Windows for ARM and there are some threads here where users are already using such laptops.

Steve.

2 Likes
8

..and in terms of games, fwiw, I bought Parallels for my macbook pro which makes it easy to run a virtual Windows machine on mac and through this I can play any number of my old Steam games on my macbook. It costs about £100 a year as a subscription and I don’t know if I’ll continue with it because I don’t really use it much, but as a proof of concept it works brilliantly and genuinely makes thousands of PC games available to Apple silicon users.

Steve.

9 
What country are you in? If the UK, Scan computers is a no-brainer. Otherwise, go to a specialist audio computer builder.
Always buy the fastest CPU, and the most RAM you can afford. It may be a bit much now, but in 2 years time it will be just average.
When I buy a new PC (not often!) I try to use the HDDs/SSDs from the old one, the savings go toward that faster CPU.

I’m in France.
As for RAM, I would prefer 128, but apparently it is best to avoid using four RAM sticks. However, 2x64 is not easy to find and probably overpriced. So I am going with 2x48 by default.
Others have advised me to keep my PC and only change what is necessary, such as the CPU, motherboard, RAM, and in my case, perhaps the power supply.
I was not very keen on this solution because I would be left without support in case of problems, and the equipment would be more difficult to resell. However, I will look into it.

Not at all, if you buy the right laptop. Quite the opposite, really. I have an MBP M3 Max 12p:4e 128G/8TB NVMe and it’s been my main studio rig for over a year (and a different MBP before that). Built-in audio (both in/out) supports 96k/32f, and the HP jack supports 150Ω (though my 300Ω Sennheisers sound great as well) if you want to mix on the go. It’s silent, and the only time the fans have ever even kicked on is when I’m using SpectraLayers to unmix at “extreme” quality. And the battery lasts all day. If I get tired of my studio, I can grab my favorite cans and go sit on the porch and get new visual stimuli. I’ve not tested how my SanDiskPro’s affect battery, but I’ve not needed the extended libraries on those guys with 8TB (so far). Of course, it cost a wee bit, but every bit worth it and more.

For these decisions I don’t focus on price-point, but the deltas between price-points. To me, the difference is far more worth it if it takes me from Little Rock to Shangri-La.

My new Mac Studio M3 Ultra will be here in a couple of weeks, and I’m actually going to have to think through the sync model when working on both - I’m actually considering keeping the Ultra in a more “server” role, but I know my mind won’t let me do that. I only bring that up because working between the two can get a bit tricky depending on one’s workflow.

Anyway, just my buck-o-five regarding “Studio Laptop.” I prefer it hands-down over any fixed rig.

That would be awesome. But a machine like that costs €6,000 where I live. Unfortunately, I don’t have that kind of budget.

Definitely not the case any more that laptops are not powerful enough for music use. I have a macbook pro with an M2 max processor and 64Gb of ram and it’s the most capable machine I’ve had for Cubase, after decades of (usually enjoyably) assembling PCs while trying to spend as little money as possible. I think any Apple silicon mac will be noticeably faster than your older PC setup. There are also now some PC laptops coming on the market with Qualcomm Snapdragon processors - which I understand to be similarly ARM-based and cool running, like the Apple silicon range. Cubase already runs on Windows for ARM and there are some threads here where users are already using such laptops.

Since I got an iPad Pro, I’ve been leaning towards the Mac world, especially the MacBook Pro. But the prices aren’t what they used to be. And I’m really worried that a lot of my stuff won’t work anymore, or that I’ll have to buy new licenses…

But it’s tempting, that’s for sure. Maybe as an addition later on… Is it easy to transfer a Cubase project from a PC to a Mac?

Otherwise, based on what’s been said, I imagine the most powerful ones would be the Ryzen 9950X, the Core i9 14900K, and the Core Ultra 9 285K.

I was thinking about the Asus ProArt X870E motherboard, as the equivalent Z890 seems to be harder to find in stores.

Do you have a preference for CPUs, or are they all about the same? Between the issues some people have had, optimizing Cubase, Kontakt, etc. for either frequency or number of cores, I’m getting lost.

10

Have to agree with everything Thor.HOG said.
I have a 16"MBP M2 Max and it blows away any PC I have built over the yrs, so much so that I have quit using my Windows machines, just use the laptop and it is noiseless. I have 3 external monitors hooked up to it. Also have it connected via Starlink to the Internet when needed, and when you live 30 miles from any population this modern stuff is like a dream come true for me.
Compared to the late 80’s when the only internet here was dial-up @ 1 meg taking 17 mins and now with Starlink @ 300+Mbps it’s unbelievable all on a laptop.
Sure it seems expensive at first but I don’t regret spending the money at all.
I started with an Amiga in the 80’s then all models of PC’s but always stayed away from Mac’s, thought they were way too expensive but having finally made the switch I couldn’t be happier.

1 Like
11

There have been some VERY serious issues with this series. The are topics here about it. (The chips run too hot and literally burn out.)

12

Following topic with interest after posting similar just now and being pointed here.
My 10 year-old self-built tower is way less powered than OP’s but finished an album recently no problem. Was thinking of getting what would have been a decent level model a couple of years ago and Lenovo Legion did come up. It would probably still be a lot more powerful unless there are other considerations.
I wonder about noise with laptops but figured in the studio I could tuck it away and hang everything off a dock.