Mac M4 Studio and Cubase 14, possible upgrade

“Fully erased” is incorrect. I’ve done it, personally. If you would like to cite that reference (I’m hoping you’re not using AI for this - if so, that explains the confusion) that’s fine - in fact, I ask that you do so.

My comments above, as I stated, are for the Studio Mx’s, and they are verified correct as far one can without jamming a screwdriver into the board. Not knowing where that data you pasted is sourced, I won’t say “in all cases with Apple Silicon this is wrong,” but I will in the case of the Studios.

Feel free to keep conflating modular storage with flash die storage integrated directly with the controller and the rest of the system board, and how local storage works. If you’re using AI, I’ll suggest you don’t do that. None of this is “built-in obsolescence.” It’s literally no different than saying “if your CPU fries the system won’t boot.” The reason I use the term “conflate” is that you keep going back to “drive failing.” It’s not a “drive” in that sense. It’s not a separate, modular device. It’s not even socketed. The user has NO ACCESS to the SoC controller that must fail for what the above statements refer to. It’s quite literally added as part of the manufacturing of the mother board the same time the other components are.

If I “fully erase” the user-accessible flash storage, or even the NAND controller local policy with Apple Configurator 2, I can STILL boot into DFU. And still do exactly what was outlined. I feel that even if I post screen shot of that, there will still be pushback. Since I have done this, I don’t see the value in arguing, or even trying to defend what looks like AI posts. I don’t mean that to be offensive, I’m just not going to continue debating something I’ve personally done. Thanks.

I think the term fully erased was spurious yes. If you have a working 'drive ’ then you can do what you said. I was talking about a failure… which will eventually happen.. read the artivlce below… I spent months researching this stuff when I got my M1 and couldn’t beleive this was actually the case… but it is. Read the blogs from the CCC and Super duper developers, they know their stuff, I’ve used theier products for 20 years on my Macs…

Nowhere in that article does he state “Apple Silicon Macs cannot boot from an external drive if the internal drive is dead or fully erased.” And that’s an article for Big Sur from 2021. Yet again, I’ve stated repeatedly I’m talking about the OP’s Studio M4.

Are you saying that you did NOT paste results from AI? Because that’s what I think you did. It’s OK, man. If you want to keep just pasting stuff, that’s totally your right. I’m just not going to participate anymore, particularly now that I feel these responses are being disingenuous. Again, my intent isn’t to insult, but rather, to be respectfully transparent.

Complete failure of the internal SSD is fatal to an M1 Mac. As that’s soldered onto the logic board,

As I said i went through this a few years ago when I got my M1 and I wasn’t happy…

I’m cool if you think you cna boot from an external if your internal dies.

I decided that wasn’t for me.

all good.

I was NOT spreading missinformation I was posting what I’d spent months finding out to help the OP make a decision.

Forst thng i did with my Macs was make CCC or super duper bootab;le clones in case a drive failed.

Not trying to argue for the sale of things here, I htougfht I was helping :slight_smile: :slight_smile: :slight_smile:

M<

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(in my daunting evil boomy voice drowned out in reverb)

Yes…YES…Denicio knows such things…he is a knower of all things…(boomy voice ends, reverb’s gone)…except the ways of the Mac!

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I have to say that sounds like an orders of magnitude shift from what I’ve ever had. Don’t get me wrong - I’m achingly jealous, not critical. My MBpro with M2 Max and 64 gb has been superb for me and will likely keep me going for years. But it scares me to think what that machine must be capable of.

for everyone watching this thread , especialy @Denicio here’s some positive’s about the M4 Chip and it’s amazing single core performance. if you look at the last graph , the BUS test you’ll see the lowly m4 mini is killing it . You’ll also see , as I mentioned that if you use Kontact then the M4 isn’t great compared to windows but , as I said the single core performance is great.

p.s. I helped develop some of these test :slight_smile: hence my comments earlier. I’ve been working on this for over a year with various people.

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I dont pretend to be a chart guru and i ‘think’ i understand what i am seeing there.
If this is indeed good news on the chart for that 10 Core Mac Mini then my machine should do better. Here is exactly what is heading my way next week.

I may have gone a wee bit overboard, but I’m a “practice what I preach” kind of person, so I put my money where my music is for stuff like that. I’m also not much of a “theoretical” person when it comes to tech, so I made sure I set myself up for success AND to be in a position to actually test things I say or recommend to others. I absolutely love my MBP M3 Max (12:4, 128g, 8TB) and it’s more than enough. But I was building out a separate workspace and decided to keep UAD/MPE “sound design” on the one side and upgrading the main rig to the M3 Ultra. I can run my 32gig Tahoe 8 core all the time without even noticing it’s there. From cold-to-desktop in 16 seconds. Pretty remarkable.

basically the M4 has really great IPC which shows in anything that requires single core performance.

Your M4 Studio is exactly the one I was going to buy :slight_smile: you’ll have a great experience with it I’m sure.
At the high end levels we’re talking here, we’re splitting hairs on a lot of what we’re discussing , and simple workflow things and diffferences between OS that are small can make a difference to an individual.

personally , I have issues with Apple as a company in regards to them not adhereing to ecological issues unless forced by the EU Courts ( changing connectors for phone charging rather than adhering to the rule all other phone manufactures did for one) is a reason they get a mark in the minus box :slight_smile: but that’s just me :slight_smile:

Anyway, congrats on the M4 , you’ll have a blast.

M

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NOTHING wrong with personal convictions causing you to spend your money where you want.

I don’t eat at Chick Fil A, shop Hobby Lobby, drink TN whiskey or KY bourbon. All over personal convictions that are important to me.

I am hopeful this M4 gets me back creating goofy noises in my studio again. Working REALLY hard at trying to keep my expectations low and my excitement at bay.

At the end of the day, i just don’t even want to think about my computer. I just want to power up and get my creative mojo on!

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If you’re just sick of trying to fix the PC issues yourself, why not take your build a computer store that builds PCs? Not every computer store will touch a custom build in terms of repair (particularly stores like Best Buy that only sell pre-built systems from big vendors), but most smaller computer stores that do custom builds themselves will.

I took my custom build once to a local shop when it had a major failure and I didn’t know what device failed and didn’t have spare parts to troubleshoot. A few hundred dollars later and buying a new motherboard, they had it all fixed up for me and working again.

The weird extra exhaust fan you’ve jerry-rigged may not be helping matters. There are bad airflow designs where adding fans in the wrong place (or facing the wrong way) can actually make the computer heat up more by creating dead zones.

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FYI @Denicio:

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A backstory, a realization, and a feeling of humiliation!

The backstory~

As you can read through this thread, I have spent a considerable amount of time tweaking and tech-ing this new computer. New Fans, new PCIe cards for a hot drive, new radiator add ons with fins. Each step of the way running HWMonitor (or Info), taking note while running various stress tests. They all met with Motherboard beeps. About a week ago I got all my drive temps within range, but the beeps persisted. Sometimes Long Short, other times Long Long Short. All of it sounds exactly like cranky motherboards do. The only thing still showing that it was running hot was the PCH chip on the motherboard and there is simply no way to pull the cover off of it and replace the thermal pad with a better one. It’s been said Gigabyte uses cheap thermal pads to keep costs low. So, after the final power up last week, and the beeps persisting, I threw up my arms and resigned that something had to change. I did NOT do a final stress test on this new computer after all those new mods were done. I simply gave up. THAT is when the M4 Mac discussion began. A new shiny object, neat, so my attention was diverted from the battle scars and disgust of this new PC build. Then this week I decided to revisit this old forum seeking advice on Macintosh computers. Okay, so you are caught up.

Last launch of the new PC, beeps happening with the piezo speaker removed, MacGyver mods done and continued random beeps. Especially when I’d push the computer hard with a heavily loaded down project.

The Realization~

As I was about to start decommissioning the new 2025 PC and getting ready to sell for parts to recover some of my losses, I climbed under my studio desk to access the back of the computer to check something. ~Not desk as in console, but a wooden desk that I built to fit my needs for my workflow. ~

In this thread @mducharme made a comment that burrowed itself in my brain, but I didn’t think much of it. He said “It is old fashioned now to hear a beep when booting up. Other people thought their computer was beeping but it was their UPS instead (sitting by the computer).”

So I turn the Studio power on via my Furman rack mount and I decided to hit the power button on the computer and let it power up as I was going to do some file clean up and get things in order in preparation for the M4’s arrival. SO, I pushed the computers power button, crawled under my desk. In that exact moment, my left ear was pointing at the computer, and my right ear was right NEXT to my battery backup. In an instant the backup beeps. Same short beep and tone that endless motherboards have beeped over the years. I sat frozen, sprawled out on the floor. The blood left my head and a cold bead of sweat appeared on my upper lip and the realization of what just happened had just happened. Then a couple more short beeps. I look at the back up battery (APC) and the power light goes from green to yellow. I now grimace in anger as I stare down this APC unit.

Now, when every other battery backup I have owned (I own and run a company with many computers and battery back ups) starts to die, they scream this high pitch scream and its steady, loud, long and does not stop till I physically power it down. It will scream till the battery is drained and then die. I have never once seen a battery backup light go from green to yellow. It’s always green to red. This APC is the first of its kind for me. It’s never given me a problem. I fully expected when it died, it would scream constantly like the other battery backups I have owned. The one comment from @mducharme that stuck with me earlier suddenly became the loudest thing in my head.

My head dropped into my hands as I lay on the floor while the reality sank in. That is when I started to get physically ill. In a moment I realized it was not a rogue hidden speaker somewhere on my MB or case AND that my new PC is most likely fine. But stress tests would need to be run to make sure. I ran HWMonitor in logging mode and then pushed this new computer with Prime95, CrystalDiskMark (each drive), and then I ran my latest mix that is heavily loaded down (track, buss, and plugins). My drive temps were happy during the stress tests. Prime95 pushed my CPU to the red zone occasionally but would quicky drop back down. For the most part it was staying within ideal range for heavy lifting. With each test being run and seeing the GREAT results, I started to feel more and more disappointment with myself.

So, I cancelled my M4 order as it was still being processed by apple.

I should be happy that I am not having to spend more money. I was going to lose a ton of cash by parting out this brand NEW computer and selling it on Marketplace. Which was a tough pill to swallow.

My libraries are already loaded on drives, temps in range and now I can get back to making music.

The Humiliation~

I wanted to post my experience because I think others can learn from my stupid mistakes!

And I deserve a good mocking, so have at it. I own this dumb mistake!

I have helped pals wire their personal studios. I have soldered patch bays, swapped an MCI console and MTR’s for Otari Console and MTR and helped with wiring at the local university. I have soldered countless XLR connections while building custom snakes. I have built a PAiA Mic Pre. I’ve soldered an upgrade chip on the PCB of an Eventide H3000. I have opened up a Lexicon 224, pulled out the bowed waferboard PCB and desoldered an old, busted battery and soldered a brand-new rechargeable battery in its place.

I HAVE BUILT MANY DAW COMPUTERS!

I should have, SHOULD HAVE, thought of exploring the battery backup as a possibility.

I should be happy about this but since I woke up, all I feel is disappointment in myself.

I sent myself on a snipe hunt!

I hope others learn from my experience.

I stand here, hat in hand, waiting for the mockery to begin!!! There is nothing you can say that I have not already said to myself.

Needless to say, a new Battery Backup is on order. I am getting one twice the power than the one I had. What I also realized is this new computer draws more power than the previous one and that possibly contributed to the backups sudden demise.

And for any nerds wanting specifics, I fed both logs into GPT and had it create a summary.

Stress Test Report: Prime95 & CrystalDiskMark

1. CPU & System Stress Test (Prime95)

• Prime95 was used to stress all cores and threads of the AMD Ryzen 9 9950X.
• CPU Package temps peaked at ~95°C with hovering temps in the 87–89°C range under load.
• During idle or low activity, CPU temps dropped to 40–55°C.
• No thermal throttling was detected, and clocks remained stable.
• AMD PCH #2 temps peaked at 54.2°C – within acceptable limits.
• System stayed stable throughout the full duration of testing.

2. M.2 Drive Thermals During Prime95

• Crucial 4TB (Audio/VSTi drive): 63°C max
• Crucial 2TB (OS drive): 66°C max
• WD SN850X (Mass Storage, in PCIe adapter): 49–50°C max
• Crucial 2TB (Video drive): ~54°C max

3. CrystalDiskMark Results & Drive Temps

Each drive was hit with a full 64GiB test in 5-pass mode:

• WD SN850X 4TB (PCIe Adapter - Mass Storage):

  • Temps peaked at 48°C, returned to 44°C quickly post-test.

• Crucial 4TB (Audio/VSTi):

  • Reached 79°C peak, hovered in 70–75°C range, cooled to 66°C.

• Crucial 2TB (OS Drive):

  • Peaked at 70°C, average around 63–66°C.

• Crucial 2TB (Video Drive):

  • Peaked at 61°C.

4. Final Analysis

• All system temps are within spec. No signs of instability or performance loss.
• The WD SN850X performed best thermally thanks to the new Sabrent adapter and location.
• Crucial 4TB Audio/VSTi drive runs hottest under sustained disk load (up to 79°C).
• CPU cooling is effective. Clock speeds remained stable, and thermal spikes were short.

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That’s a great post! And very entertainingly written. More of us should do the same thing when we finally solve a riddle. Congratulations!

Steve.

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This is a great thread,

with a lot of out of the way info.

And, for once, I’m OK with the op marking his own post as the solution.

What are you going to do with the all the cash you just saved?

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It will help pay for the therapy i clearly need after all this computer insanity!

Wonder if there is one that specializes in Battery Backup PTSD?

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I’m just glad it was something simple and that my advice was helpful.

I suspected it was likely something simple or weird because things weren’t quite adding up in my mind. It has probably been 15-20 years since I saw any motherboard with a built in piezo buzzer, and even though the motherboards still have a speaker connector on them in most cases, the PC cases haven’t had a speaker built-in anymore for around the same time, so practically no new computer from the past 15 years or so beeps anymore unless the person buys a piezo and connects it to the speaker connectors. And if you did that and the beeping was driving you nuts, I wasn’t sure why you wouldn’t unplug the piezo instead. Googling for computer beeping issues I had found several threads where people had similar issues as you and it turned out to be their UPS giving beeping that sounded like it might be POST beeps or other similar alerts, and that’s why I suggested that.

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what a great end to this :slight_smile: really… I’m glad you posted this whole story too as we;ve all done it. Seriously, despite years of experience we’ve all done things like this, and in times of stress, it’s easier for you to lose sight of things which only makes it worse.

Also, it show’s how useful this forum and the great people on it are :slight_smile:

Sometimes just telling your story will make a light buib go one in someone’s head and they can point you in the right direction, or quite often the conversations will just give you ideas and you’ll find the solution yourself.

Anyway, @Denicio great story :slight_smile: and a happy ending :slight_smile:

go make music.

p.s. I’ve just replaced my old APC rack mount UPS, that beeped exactly like you mentioned too :slight_smile: I have a newer smaller ( physically) version now.

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