HI GUYS …
after so many usage mac osx I’m thinking of upgrading to Win 7 64 bit.
prices of apple in value performance no longer justifies the cost of a mac …
I ask you of the forum …
Tips for a daw with cubase 7 on win 7 64 bit.
components, the stability of the system, your impressions …
HI GUYS …
I just went the other way…from Win 7 to Mac running Mavericks. C7 ran great for me on Win 7, no complaints. I have no idea what it would be like going to Windows from OS, but I imagine it wouldn’t be that difficult…but completely different from Mac world. The only issue I can think of is drivers and hardware, because there are so many components available for PC (unlike Mac, where components are are compatible), and you’ll be dealing with ASIO. If you get the right combination, you’ll have a solid system. I agree Mac is stupid expensive, but I did it for portability reasons, etc. And really, I have yet to experience any performance differences; I always hear that there are, but not sure what they are yet. I just read that a 12-core Mac Pro with 65GB Ram will set you back $9k!
asio no problem with rme soundcard…
ASIO is excellent, just different from Core Audio.
I did that about three years ago (Mac to PC.) Never regretted it for one second. It was like getting out of very heavy and expensive shackles and stepping into total freedom. Oh, and don’t let anyone try to convince you that “pros only use macs.” I’m a pro and I use Windows. So is Hans Zimmer, who also dumped all of his macs for custom-built PC’s (and yeah, he’s a major Cubase fan.)
For the record, I’ve never had a single OS crash on Win 7 and 8 and never had the tiniest shred of malware. And yes, my main desktop is connected to the internet (it would be a major hassle if it weren’t…)
IMHO now that Windows is just as rock-solid as OSX and malware is no longer a concern (if you know what to avoid on the net…, but that also applies to macs nowadays) there is absolutely no reason to spend more money on a mac (or get a lesser computer for the same money), especially if you use Cubase. Also, most common-platform software runs more efficiently on Windows (Kontakt, Play, VEP, TotalMix FX etc.) and win machines averagely work with lower latencies than macs. So, why would you want a mac? So that people around you think you’re “cool”? Reality check: the 1990’s have been over in a while and Steve Jobs resides six feet under…
Finally, with a Windows DAW you can build your machine (or have it built) to YOUR EXACT SPECIFICATIONS and you don’t need to accept whatever Apple thinks it’s best for you (and guess what, macs aren’t specifically designed to make music.) That also means you can buy the VERY BEST COMPONENTS on the market and not what Apple would have you believe it’s best (Apple has HUGE profit margins, which means they don’t use the very best components. Just slightly better than average.)
Papi is right, there really is no difference these days…it comes down to personal preference. However, I don’t believe most common platform programs run better on either OS. Perhaps it’s true, but I have seen no difference. For me, it tuned out I prefer working on Mac, and I may be one of the few that’s actualy impressed with the quality of the new mac components. Also, all of the studios I work with are on Mac so it made sense to ensure I was compatible (some projects are in Logic). And I’m one of those guys that likes “peace of mind”, so the Apple Care was an added bonus considering they have worldwide coverage (I travel to other studios from time to time).
Just do your homework and you’ll be pleased with PC.
I am sure that the mac has its potential, stability.
I have a macbook pro 2009, and I do not feel bad, indeed …
I would like to replace and upgrade it to have more cpu in the 64-bit world .
I realize that the price of a mac mini are affordable, some with 2 hdd sssd would be phenomenal and 16 gb of ram … but with the same amount I take a pc win 7 64 bit exaggerated with much more power …
imac 27, 2013 I read in various forums that has problems with many USB sound cards , the new MacPro is very expensive and I do not like to take computer just left the factory , they always have problems of youth .
I have left , or another mac book pro or a mac mini .
otherwise take courage and I select piece by piece and build a pc win.
I’m just worried stability around here .
after so many years accustomed to the extreme reliability of the mac.
so if you have time and want to help me, I will post the individual components and an idea and I’ll decide .
I thank you all and wish you a happy Christmas and a good 2014.
Yes, there is a difference and it’s noticeable. You haven’t seen it because you moved from an older PC to a brand new mac, and the faster processor compensated for that. But if you take two identically-specced machines, a mac and a PC, the latter will be noticeably faster and display less latency. There are people (especially on Gearslutz) who benchmark that all the time, and the results are available online.
For me, it tuned out I prefer working on Mac, and I may be one of the few that’s actualy impressed with the quality of the new mac components.
Huh? Do you think Apple gets “special” Intel CPU’s? Special Samsung memory? Special Hitachi drives? Apple doesn’t make anything, they buy components from the very same companies other brands buy. And they sure don’t buy the best of the best when it comes to parts. You see, the top business lines from HP, Dell, Sony etc. make very little profit, because they do use top-notch components (when you sell to big business, it’s all about numbers, and the competition is fierce.) Apple sells their computers roughly at the same price as those lines, but they still sell consumer-grade machines (most business laptops have passed military certification. Nothing from Apple has.) Hence they make a ton of profit. Bottom line: when you buy a top-notch business PC, you’re buying quality components. When you buy Apple, you’re buying a consumer-level machine with components that are indeed better than what you get in a $500 PC, but they’re no match for what a business PC would offer you. Also business laptops typically come with a lot more ports and options (docks etc.) The only thing that Apple has is the design and the fact that “everybody uses it” in certain industries (but that’s actually only true in the US) and if you don’t some people may frown at you.
And I’m one of those guys that likes “peace of mind”, so the Apple Care was an added bonus considering they have worldwide coverage (I travel to other studios from time to time).
That’s another myth that clashes with reality. Of course Apple Care is better than the service you get with a $500 consumer PC (in other words, apples to oranges. Pun intended.) But you’re spending the same money that would buy you a BUSINESS PC. My HP Elitebook laptop came with a 3-year ON-SITE warranty at no extra cost, which is something Apple only offers as an expensive optional ($350 or so.)
Quite frankly, I believe that the ONLY valid reason to still have a mac for music/pro audio nowadays is if you use Logic and can’t or won’t switch to another DAW.
I’m just worried stability around here . after so many years accustomed to the extreme reliability of the mac.
There is absolutely nothing to worry about. I started on the Atari in 1987, and then for 20+ years I used nothing but macs. Of course I was a bit concerned too when I switched, but my fears proved to be completely unfounded. I’m already on my third generation of PC’s. Last time around, I even decided to build my own desktops, and it proved way way easier than I thought. Yes, I had help from my sound engineer and online, but hey, we’re here to help you, so just ask away.
@papi61: please don’t elevate your personal beliefs to solemn truths. you are a happy Windows user, fine, but please don’t waste time to try to convince us that mac users are “wrong” in some sense.
Personal beliefs? Would you please point out to what I said that isn’t factual?
It’s time to make CHOICE! New Mac Pro, with new periphery but security in familiarity and comfort and transferability?
or PC with better performance, less money to spend, more goodies to buy?
This is my question of the decade, because it’s going to be a few thousand bucks, and I’m a hobbyist.
An excellent choice, if you are serious user and want performance, stability, AUDIO, working with a professional DAW as Cubase 7.
You can choose your own quality components with PC,
The stability on the PC are much better then MAC OSX.
Performance like “night and day” compare to MAC-slow…
Work, Record with “low latency ASIO-audio” ,OSX Core Audio can’t even handle a normal buffer setting without drop outs.
Use 40-75% more plugins on same setup VS on same computer with OSX-MAC…
You use “Wave files” that load and read twice as fast as AIFF-files,
You have security, no one can hack and take over your computer and all the files in one second, VS no security, non existed on MAC, open like a book,
Use latest graphic cards and drivers and work in crystal clear graphic and VIVID colors --> no more MAC dull grey environment that make eyes go bad.
So everything is better on a PC Windows 7 x64 compare to any MAC computer. Windows 8.1 x64 gives you even better performance and stability then Windows 7 x64.
Plugins =38plugins in Cubase on MAC VS 130 plugins in Cubase on PC. In this example 71% more plugins on PC.
Check the number on Pro Tools MAC VS PC and you see even more performance gain on PC like almost 90%
Regarding overall audio performance, multimedia, graphic etc. Anything you throw at it Cubase 7 will use it.
Exactly. There’s no need to bash either platform, they’re both good. I hated Mac for years becase I believed all the naysayers, but now that I’ve gone to the “dark side”, I uderstand why Mac is so huge in the recording/film composer industry. Again, it boils down to personal preference. If can can pump out a film score without a hiccup, than that’s all that matters.
And oddly enough (maybe I’m lucky), I have not had a single latency issue, and I’ve gone well over 150 MIDI tracks while running video and 50+ VI instances. Seriously, everything just seems to work on Mac. And again, this is MY experience, every setup is different. I’m not interested in all the benchmark stuff, I just need a system that’s going to allow me to deliver music in a reliable manner…that’s it.
And why exactly is that? Can you explain it with demonstrable facts and scientific data or it’s just “great” because some people say it’s great? Mac is “huge” in the recording industry just like Coach bags are huge with Japanese women (and by ironical coincidence, Coach bags are also made in China, just like $20 bags.) There isn’t really a reason why, it’s just fashion. Just follow the herd or people in the industry will frown at you.
I’m not “bashing” here, just saying what’s factually true and that no one has even tried to question with any degree of credibility. Oh, and BTW, macs are way less popular with the film music crowd than they used to be. At the very least, those who still make music on macs have PC slaves that handle the heaviest loads. That’s because we don’t need to be “hip” and we do actually need brute CPU power.
And oddly enough (maybe I’m lucky), I have not had a single latency issue
Again, not what I said. I didn’t say mac doesn’t work, I said it’s slower and it has a higher latency than a similarly-specced PC machine. And I have tons of evidence to support that. Freddie just posted a link.
I’m not interested in all the benchmark stuff, I just need a system that’s going to allow me to deliver music in a reliable manner…that’s it.
And a Windows system isn’t capable of that? How exactly is the mac more “reliable”? The fact that it USED TO BE is totally irrelevant.
Like I said, the ONLY valid point you have is that you want/have to to use Logic. The rest is just you trying to rationalize your choice, which was likely influenced by the fact that other people you work with have macs. Which, again, is like a Japanese woman buying a Coach bag because most Japanese women love them (American women love Coach too, but their Japanese counterparts seem to be obsessed with that brand.) In the end, it’s just a bag and it’s not made any better, it just costs more. For the record, my wife loves Coach, but at least she knows she’s buying overpriced Chinese crap and she doesn’t try to rationalize it. She’s perfectly aware that a $20 bag from Target is probably just the same. Most likely even made in the very same factory.
I did this exact thing for these exact reasons.
The performance boost you’ll enjoy is on 6 fronts:
It new hardware so it’s of course faster than what you currently have.
Price-performance is better with PC. Whatever you get with the money you spend, it’ll be faster.
Modern CPUs are very overclock friendly. Motherboards from, for example, ASUS, come with built-in overclock profiles that can be chosen with a simple menu selection in the BIOS. So your faster hardware will be faster still, because Apple doesn’t provide any tools to overclock. Can you overclock a Mac? Sure, but it’s tricky and unsupported. With the right Motherboard purchase from ASUS, they’ll actually support you OCing it. They have a phone support of technicians called “Overclock Engineers” (I’m not making this up) that will walk you through it for free. It has to be on their “OC Supported” list – so call them first and find out which ones are.
Cubase performs faster, all things being equal (same hardware), under Windows.
Windows ASIO performs better at low latencies than OS X Core Audio – this is well documented over at Dawbench (an old article but still applies)
VST Plugins, by many 3rd party vendors tend to be more optimized than their AU counterparts. The affect of this can add up. I have not heard any complaints of the reverse being true, but there are probably instances.
The net effect of all of this will astound you.
papi61, not sure what your issue is, but you take things way to personal around here!! I use both PC and Mac professionally, and I am not going to start justifying anything. I use Mac to host a couple of my primary DAW’s. I compose music in Cubase/Logic/Sonar, I also use PC’s, everything works for me, I explained why, end of story. Just because you hate Mac and everything it stands for doesn’t mean it’s a wrong choice for anyone. This board is meant to help others with their concerns and issues and share experience. I’m glad you like Windows, seriously…so do I. You also offered me valuable advice about high end PC laptops (which I am grateful for). I also love Mac, and I choose to earn a living with it because it doesn’t give me grief. Plain and simple. If you don’t agree, that’s perfectly okay!
I choose the same. PC guys seem obsessed by performance, I mean every time the same story: “best performance for the price”, “over clock”, etc…I agree with you guys, but what you don’t get is that many professionals, not only in the audio segment, are maybe less interested in it but they look for a very stable system, where the OS is optimized to run on few selected hardware (and not on everything), where you don’t care about the firewire chipset compatibility, where you don’t need to install drivers for you motherboard, monitor, printer, etc…
Obsessed by performance? I don’t know what you do with your computer but the majority here actually WORK with our computers and Cubase, running many plugins, and projects with more the 8 audio tracks.
So Yes, we need performance.
If stability are your concern you should definitely be using a PC, Windows 7 or Windows 8.1. Also why narrow few selected mediocre hardware’s when you can have them all in quality, without any problems?
Don’t you understand the real reason why APPLE have done that? I just wonder how many years it will take before you all get it?
Its because Apple are obsessed to control everything. Also APPLE has never focused their MAC computers to be a computer for professionals. That is why they ended MAC PRO in the first place. I recon the new 2013 edition will be the last one, when it hits the street.
As you perhaps know, its not a computer for any professionals either. 4 USB ports, no second display, no ability to add a hard drive internal, no ability to add a PCI express card, no ability to add a SSD drive, no ability to use high-end graphic cards. Its very clear, that its not made for any serious professional even though if the name still state, “PRO”. So perhaps its “PRO” of something else? Perhaps “pro” on cost money?
Apple know already that they can’t compete with the professional users/market with Windows and LINUX.
Have you heard anyone say that professional severs like “Google servers” etc…using MAC and OSX? No.
So APPLE and MAC’s focus is on home PC market, being simple for anyone to use. There is their big money!
Example like your grandma, your parents, your wife surfing and shopping for cloths on the internet, writing e-mails etc.
Not your kids though, he or she wants performance to play game, freedom to add stuff so he or she wouldn’t be interested in any MAC computers.
Ask today, a kid if they want a iPhone or Samsung, Sony Ericson, Android phone? The answer will be Samsung S4 Android phone! If you asked the same question 3 years ago they would probably say: iPhone.
Kids learn fast and gets it fast!
The second reason and the BIG MAJOR real reasons about APPLE, is to “lock you up”; you and everybody else that use MAC so they can continue to over-profit on your behalf, by forcing you buy their overpriced junk in the Mac Store, that no one would buy if they could choose something else.
If you read “the book” and watch all the interviews, documentary with Steve Jobs, he confessed that that was the actually the main Apple strategy and reasons with MAC STORE and why Apple and MAC computers still exist today.
Design and make the products “look cool” and then over charge for it!
? What? Like if you need to do that with DEL , HP, Fujitsu Siemens, ASUS, SONY and SAMSUNG etc. computer?
I’m not trying to start a WAR here. I just give you the opportunity to see all the facts!
If you like MAC, buy it and use it, its fine by me. Hey, it will be plenty of apple support guys helping you out, selling stuff at apple store as long you are willing to continue to pay for it!
But you should also know if you “buy” into all this “Apple MAC-hype”-stuff on the Internet, that its THE BEST!
Then you have really become badly fooled.
Freddie, I think you probably assume that I don’t know the PC world. I use Mac just for my music work. At home I have also a fairly fast PC (i7, 16 GB ram) which is our family PC and it’s used for gaming, web, etc…so, everything else.
A couple of months ago, I formatted that PC and I decided to give it a try with a couple of musical projects I were working on. Even though it was a fresh OS install, it was a nightmare: many crashes and hangs…
I know what you are going to say: “it’s problem of your system”, “the hardware you choose is not optimal”, etc…but that’s exactly the reason why I use Mac: I plug and go.
PS: even though I disagree with you on many things you are a good guy
Thanks, you too!
But hey, about “we often disagree”. Finally, we can agreed on something!