Make folder tracks = Group tracks

Wow!

These discussions about adding features to Cubase that exist in other DAWs are very interesting. The debates are not always logical, but fun.

Seriously, look around the forum and you’re going to find an overwhelming amount of requests where users would like SB to add this from Logic, another from Studio One, this one from Pro Tools and etc.

What I deduce is a lot of Cubase users who have used other DAWs would like SB to add to this one all the features of other programs that they liked and that are not found in CB. To put it simply, CB must be CB, Logic, Studio One, Pro Tools, Ableton Live, Reaper, etc. It’s quite an adventure …

I think it’s asking a lot of SB to get CB to be able to be all of these programs at once. I can’t even imagine the time and money it would take to meet everyone’s requests, not to mention the money to fix all the bugs it might cause. In addition, there are already a lot of things that should be fixed and improved in the current version.

Couldn’t CB just be CB and trust the planning (and it’s a secret) that SB has established for what’s new to come and improvements to be made in future releases?

But you are also right to make all these requests, who knows. However, be aware that the planning is in the hands of SB.

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Its a discussion about the usefulness or use cases. Steinberg may or may not ever check on this thread but nonetheless over the past years you will find Protools taking Cubase features and Cubase adopting some things from Studio One or Cubase - or whatever.
It has come to the point that I aquired a licence for Studo One 5 last week. Once I opened it I was shocked at how close it was to Cubase layout. to the point that I would have been comfortable to try using it straight away.

Protools introduced clip gain many years after Steinberg introduced the concept. More recently they brought in Folder tracks to Pro Tools. Again it was part of Cubase for years.
Steinberg introduced a playlist-like feature a few releases ago akin to Protools playlists.

So no Cubase cant just be Cubase. The DAWs will continue to take each others best bits because at the end of the day some of them are just great ideas no matter where they start and are really useful for user workflow.

This current discussion about adding routing and processing ability to a Folder track is interesting and not something I had thought much about before seeing it in other DAWs.

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You are right mart. Each company must make sure it is competitive if they want to keep the interest of their users.

However, I did not say that the discussion was uninteresting and pointless. On the contrary, it is pleasant to read everyone’s arguments, but when you know the large amount of requests addressed to SB in this forum, you should not expect everything to be done or integrated in the weeks, months or years that will follow. SB has its own priorities too.

I will take this opportunity to give my opinion on this subject. Personally, I would not want to have to manage options and preferences related to this type of track. I’d rather have a new choice in which tracks to insert into the project, something like an “Add Folder Buss” command. A Folder track dedicated to a Buss, obviously there is a need to define this Buss when creating the track. In this way, you can create as many Folder Buss as you want and insert all other types of tracks that will be automatically assigned to this Buss.

If you only need one track filling tracks, then use the “Add Folder Track” command.

Lets stop calling it “folder tracks acting as group tracks” which triggers some users :slight_smile: Instead call them container tracks (with routing abilities) and leave the folder tracks alone :slight_smile:
Everybody should be happy, except some users opposing with the argument that there are already too many track types :rofl:

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Actually, the contrary… Personally I want foldable/collapsable Group Tracks :slight_smile: Much simpler I think!

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+1 for this as an option. Flexibility is good

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Hi @Adonde and welcome to the Cubase community! If you would like this as a feature you can hit the vote button at the top of this topic (if you haven’t done yet)!

Ozinga, is the term Container appropriate? This is already used for the MIDI Containers of MIDI tracks and Instrument Tracks. This does not risk creating ambiguity.

I don’t hate Zodiac’s idea of having group tracks that serve as both Folder or Container and Buss for a set of tracks. A simple dragging of tracks on this group and these tracks are automatically assigned there and the group becomes suddenly a Container or a Folder, to the satisfaction of each one.

That would be cool!

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The more I think about this issue, the more I think it’s just a case of Group tracks (FX and VCAs by extension) being very weakly represented in the project window, where tracks rule all.

What meaningful data does a group track offer right now? A volume automation lane that we try to avoid altogether, lest we make an unwanted change by mis-click.

The “container” part that people want (from what I gather, and what I too would like), is simply the ability to see which tracks are routed to a group at a glance, and then act upon these tracks locally, right there and then.

I don’t know if such a group track located at the bottom of the project should “summon the ghosts” of the tracks routed to it from the four corners of the track list temporarily when pressing a button (with full functionality, as if we moved them there by hand), or have the actual tracks rigidly fixed to (or… contained within) it forever.

In the first case (summon tracks), all tracks routed to a group could very well be in many different folders (with the current cubase meaning of folders), but when summoned by the group they would show up together under it.

In the second case (permanently contained tracks due to routing), it’s not possible for the tracks to be in two places at the same time. (Both a routing folder and another folder)

But then, for the first case it’s “just” cleverly manipulating visibility agents and moving tracks, and giving group tracks the ability to do this from a button. (A visual aid to signify the “containment”, “connection”, “relation” between the group and its sources surely wouldn’t be bad at all.)

/Thinking aloud off.

I agree, that would be my preference too :slight_smile:

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For me that workflow works better for me. So I totally understand the suggestion here. The ideia of expand/collapse a group/folder like we have in logic/ablation is great. Especially for the mixer window which in cubase we can’t do it at all.

This is the reason why I finally moved to Ableton half year ago.
It is a simple Feature but Cubase still does not have it.
Don’t understand why, during other DAWs evolving much better over the past years.
Don’t really miss Cubase until now.

The fact that you can’t organize things in Ableton without it making a group is incredibly annoying. That and only getting 12 Groups even if you pay for the expensive version. (So is the inability utilize MIDI Channels!!)

The one thing, (other than clip launching) that Ableton does well, is not hiccup every time some change is made. In Cubase everything causes play to stop, and sometimes midi notes get lost when that happens. Any track that is playing, that can not be changed, should get a think pink line or something letting you know that it can’t accommodate your request, and then make the change when play will not be interrupted.

That is, I know why Cubase does it this way. Ableton will hickup too sometimes, and Ableton can get way out of synch, If you hear it once, live it’s no worse than a performance mistake, and if you pull stems, then you won’t here it there, because you were not making the change in real time.

Not sure which is the best solution, but Cubase, stop Thunking on my Groove!

Any hope for this in an upcoming update? It would be super nice to have the option to make a folder work as a submix with its own fader, fx, etc. I know this is probably like item 500 on the Steinberg dev team’s list… but it sure is a useful feature.

I agree with this, good idea but don’t remove Folder tracks.

Yes! This is really wanted feature for me! Recently moved to Cubase from Studio One and for now I’m really happy with this decision, but I really miss the opportunity to have the folder track combined with group track.

This could be added as a toggle in Preferences, like this :

:ballot_box_with_check: Enable Group Track expansion

and when it is enabled, an optional setting to separate the Group Tracks from the other tracks, that acts like a second Divide Track List, but this time at the bottom of the window and only for the Group Tracks :

:ballot_box_with_check: Divide Group Tracks

The Group Tracks could then be unfolded like Folder Tracks, to show all the tracks that are routed to them, with access to the basic Mute, Solo and Channel Settings.

Those basic settings would of course be linked to the original tracks, and when you select a track from the list, it would also highlight the original one at the same time.

The shown tracks would not display any audio or midi events, but would allow to expand and edit the automation lanes, which would also be linked to the original tracks.


This would be a great functionality, especially on large projects.

I’ve added it to the Feature Requests list.

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+1 - The way Studio One handles it is so perfect (can either be JUST a folder or a folder/bus). Would love to see it in Cubase/Nuendo

I use folders within folders for organization purposes. For me, this would need to be an optional feature setting that one has to enable.

Yeah, thats how it is in S1. Folders can be within folders.

Basically in S1 when you make a folder, theres a little drop down menu you can click and then choose “Assign folder to bus channel”, which then turns it into a folder bus.

Best of both worlds.