Midi remote motorised faders not working

[Pauly]

Hi - Windows 10 with all updates on PC with no other issues.
Midas M32 console.
Cubase 12, initial release.

Intent:
To use M32 faders as midi remote for 32 channels of fader/mute/pan

Configuration:

• Console configured to send and receive midi program change, & fader positions.
• Console midi via USB or Midi in/out ports (Tried both)

Procedure:

1. Create new Cubase project, and add audio channels (I used 4 in this test - have also tried 32)
2. Create new midi remote panel (for the M32)
3. Add a few faders (I used faders 1 to 4) by moving each fader
4. -Assign each fader to Mixer channel VOLUME parameter for that channel (ie; 1, 2, 3, 4 etc)
5. Complete the assignments and exit the midi remote window.

RESULT:
Faders are ‘stuck’. Moving any fader results in it fighting you, and snapping back to it’s original position when you let it go.

Observations -
Disabling MIDI receive on the console, allows control of the cubase mixer channels, however the faders are in the wrong position when the project is opened, and as soon as you move one of the physical faders the Cubase channel fader snaps to the position of the Physical fader. Of course no faders are controlled by Cubase in this configuration so rewinds etc do not position the physical faders to where they should be when you stop.

Hope this helps - happy to add any further information if it’s needed.

Thanks
Pauly

[Martin.Jirsak]

Hi,

@Pauly

Console configured to send and receive midi program change, & fader positions.

What exactly does this mean, please? Does it send Program Change for the Touch Fader and then other MIDI Message (Controller or the Pitch Bend?) as the position? How did you learn the MIDI Message to the Manager?

[Nico5]

@Pauly

Moving any fader results in it fighting you, and snapping back to it’s original position when you let it go.

I think you’re probably experiencing this known and reported problem with the MIDI Remote and apparently a fix is on the way:

Midi "ghosting/Jitter" Cubase 12 with midi controller encoders (Midi Remote Control)

Not sure if you read this entire thread in detail. – This is a known issue with an already known solution on the way. Specifically my old post, showing that it’s related to the input midi message being echoed back with some latency: Midi "ghosting/Jitter" Cubase 12 with midi controller encoders (Midi Remote Control) - #5 by Nico5 And Jochen already replied, that a solution is on the way, via being able to suppress the echoing: p.s. Yes, because scale will make the target controller respo…

[Pauly]

Hi Martin,
The console has a tab in the setup screen that has check boxes - For ‘send’ midi, and ‘Receive’ midi.
I’m not with the console right now, but from memory they are something like
Midi CC
Fader Possition
etc

This gives me the capability to tell the copnsole to (for example) send fader positions over midi, but not receive them, and vis versa.
Of course - to be a control surface, the console needs to send AND receive this data as it’s the only way to know where to put the faders (from Cubase), and send fader positions when they are changed (to Cubase)

I’d assume an X32 would be identical, however you know what assumptions do! .

Thanks for t he reply.
Pauly

[Pauly]

Hi Nico,
Thanks, and you may be right, however (as I discussed in that thread), I’m not sure the short term, or even the long term proposed solution will do the trick.

What is frustrating is that when the console is configured as a controls surface (where it can allocate the 8 master faders to emulate a Mackie HUi or whatever), the faders work perfectly with Cubase. It’s just the lure of having 32 available so I could use the desk for mixing is strong! I’m really looking forward to it.

Thanks
Pauly

[Martin.Jirsak]

Hi,

How did you assign the MIDI Message in the script, please?

[Pauly]

Hi Martin
No scripting for me- I just used the midi remote windows in Cubase.

Thanks
Pauly

[Martin.Jirsak]

Hi,

If you use the MIDI remote Manager, there is the message: “Move a control on your MIDI controller”. I’m afraid, if the fader on the hardware sends:

• Touch
• Fader Position
• Release
  messages, you mapped the Release MIDI message instead of the Fader Position MIDI Message.

Could this be the case?

[Pauly]

Hi again Martin
Anything could be the case! I’m not sure what is sent. All I know is the problems sorry.

Thanks
Pauly

[Pauly]

HI Martin,

Here’s the remote config window on the console.
In the ‘Midi Receive’ and ‘Midi Transmit’ sections, if I enable Fader POS CC in both, the faders lock up. If I disable Fader pos CC in ‘Midi receive’, the faders control Cubase ok, but Cubase doesn’t control the fader positions.

Hope that helps.

I should add that I have tried disabling ‘prog. Change’ in both Midi Receive and Transmit with no change in behaviour.

[Martin.Jirsak]

Hi,

As far as I can see, Fader position is not received. So if you change the volume in Cubase, the hardware is not in sync anymore.

But I was talking about Cubase.

Can you use any MIDI Monitor application to find out, if the hardware sends the touch fader messages, please?

[Pauly]

Hi again Martin,
I setup a midi monitor, and here is what comes from the desk when I move faders 1,then 2, then, 3, then 4 up a little.
B0 00 00
B0 00 00
B0 00 00
B0 00 00
B0 01 00
B0 01 00
B0 01 00
B0 01 00
B0 02 00
B0 02 00
B0 02 00
B0 02 00
B0 02 00
B0 02 00
B0 03 00
B0 03 00
B0 03 00
B0 03 00
B0 03 01
B0 03 01
B0 03 01

[Martin.Jirsak]

Hi,

OK, there is no rich fader message.

But as I wrote, you should enable Fader receive to keep the hardware in sync.

[Pauly]

Hi again,
Correct - but if I do the faders lock up!

Thanks
Pauly

[Martin.Jirsak]

Hi,

Then I’m afraid, you are affected by the issue Nico5 linked.

[Nico5]

@Martin.Jirsak

Hi,

Then I’m afraid, you are affected by the issue Nico5 linked.

@Pauly

I’m not sure the short term, or even the long term proposed solution will do the trick.

… and after some testing of the new 12.0.10 release I’m afraid (and quite disappointed), that it does not seem to solve the problem:

Midi "ghosting/Jitter" Cubase 12 with midi controller encoders (Midi Remote Control)

I just tested this in the 12.0.10 update (on Win10), but I don’t think it delivered the right solution for motorized faders and endless encoders that track current position in the hardware When disabling the midi feedback to the hardware, the MIDI Remote now seems to stop sending midi messages, even when the change to the Quick Control is originating from Cubase (or from another control surface). I think the MIDI Remote needs to work like the Generic Remote: The Generic Remote sends messa…

[Pauly]

Hi,

Confirming the issue is not resolved with 12.10. Bummer.

Thanks
Pauly

[Pauly]

So… from here what happens?
Are the Steinberg team looking at this issue? It would be good to know if there’s a plan and a way forward with this.
Thanks
Pauly

[Pauly]

Still not fixed with 12.0.20
Here’s a video of the fader behaviour;

[Jochen_Trappe]

Hi @Pauly, please stick to the “good old” Mackie HUI or Mackie Control integration. We will address the issue regarding motorised faders within the next couple of months.