MIDI SEND CC74 not automating target VST


I’ve set up an instrument track and a MIDI track which sends midi data to the instrument track. I don’t want to record the synth’s automation in its own track because in the end I want to use the automation from the MIDI send track to control two/more synth at the same time.

When I play midi notes, the MIDI send channel sends the notes but when I record/draw automation for CC74, that CC data never reaches the intended destination. I’ve set up the MIDI sends to that track but it’s only midi notes that end up at the instrument.

What am I missing?

I just tested this with CC 11 and the Retrologue synth in Cubase 11 Pro on Win 10. And it seemed to work for me

How do you know the that the CC data isn’t arriving at the destination VSTi?

They’re not getting there because the knobs on the VST isn’t changing. If I select the instrument track I can record automation but if I select the midi track that is suppose to send midi to that vst, it doesn’t record automation or send the cc to that synth when I turn the knob on my device. Did you use a midi send channel to instrument channel?

This happened to me when I was using “komplete kontrol” as a host.

Yes exactly:

I just tested your scenario more thoroughly, and it worked as expected.

1 Midi Track sending CC 74 to 2 Instrument Tracks (you can view the animated gif file below in a separate browser tab to make it larger):


That only works if that synth receives CC74 on that knob. Any synth that receives other CC data on that knob which cannot “midi learn”, does not work. I tested extensively last night.

but that’s a different problem than in the original post - or did I miss what you were describing?

If you need one CC from a common CC only track to become several different one’s, depending on the target instrument, it might be doable via virtual midi cabling like loopMidi or similar:

  • Have the original CC track send to the virtual midi cable
  • Have each target instrument use that same virtual midi cable as input
  • Put an Input Transformer into each Instrument Track requiring a different controller number and make it change the incoming CC messages to the controller number required by the target instrument


He’s using some plugins that don’t have learn features, don’t have documented controllers for the controls, and might not even be registering the controls as VST parameters.

‘If’ he can find the parameter and bind it via Generic Remote, that’d work, but it’d be a static full-time binding.

A thread here on the topic if you’ve got some ideas.

In the other thread, it sounded to me like the VST parameters do exist, since they show up in the remote control editor - and also since they show up as midi controllable via the FL wrapper, which seems to be conceptually similar to what Cubase is doing with QCs and the Generic Remote.

It’s not a free solution, but not expensive either: Pluginguru Unify is designed to mix multiple instruments into a single one, including having the ability to route incoming midi controllers to multiple VST parameters:

  • The Cubase Instrument track runs Unify.
  • And Unify contains multiple instruments, and their desired mappings from midi CC messages to multiple VST parameters of multiple instruments.
    • Unify presets can be saved, so the same combination of instruments, mappings and even patches become a Unify preset that can then be recalled in other projects (or in the standalone version).

And yes, there’s a demo version.

Yeah, I use bidule for this. It’s way more in-depth, and not ‘cheap’. Not real expensive either ($95USD I think?).

People can check it out full featured for free in stand-alone or over re-wire, but to get the plugin version, gotta buy in.

EDM guys would probably LOVE bidule. They’d never run out of insert slots again. They could build their own ‘super plugins’ and go nuts with sound design.

Wanna chain 12 VST effects in parallel and strobe across them? No problem!

Wanna be able to add/remove/change plugins while the Cubase transport is playing, in an unarmed track, without the annoying ‘stop-glitch’? No problem…do it through an active instance of bidule! Cross fade it in if ya want!

Amazing tool/host. Host inside a host, sound server, sonic engine, sampler, and more. Mod matrices galore…all can be automated, a zillion different ways.

Add arp engines to stuff that doesn’t have it.
Add LFO to stuff that doesn’t have it.

Kinda ugly to look at, but pragmatic, and creative options are only limited by the power/speed/efficiency of your computer!

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“EDM guys would probably LOVE bidule. They’d never run out of insert slots again. They could build their own ‘super plugins’ and go nuts with sound design.”

Exactly what I’m trying to achieve. I use different synths to build the whole sound because no single sound can be perfect in all aspects (attack, body," sheen")

UNIFY looks like my solution!

Yep, combine whatever plugins you like into a ‘super plugin’…in any VST/AU/Rewire host.

Check the demo. Then imagine having that as a plugin ‘inside’ your favorite DAW, as many times as you like, in both VST mixer inserts, and VSTi instrument tracks/racks.

Not many ‘missing DAW features’ you can’t plug up with bidule.

And ya don’t have to be a programmer build your own ‘super plugins’.

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Thanks for your quite detailed desciptions of Bidule’s capabilities in this and and the other thread we both participated in. – Looks like I may want to add Bidule to my arsenal, whenever I want to do a little more intense stuff that’s beyond Unify.

Unify is leaning more towards multi synth patch design and less towards general purpose flexible utility, since it’s created under the auspices of formidable synth and drum patch designer (John “Skippy” Lehmkuhl), albeit programmed by Shane Dunne (who’s also Canadian, just like Plogue, the company behind Bidule).

By the way, a similar wiring diagram interface metaphor to Bidule is also present inside a very flexible routing module inside Unify, and even more so in a delightful new modular synth called Hyperion.

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Thanks! I’ll be checking those out. The product descriptions are outstanding.
Trying things out are the best way to know if it’s a good tool for the job.

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I just realized, that I should add a comment about a current limitation of Unify: It does not yet send midi out, since it’s primary design goal is to be a super combination synth rather than a general purpose utility.

That being said, it’s been requested in the user forums and if I recall it correctly has been added to the roadmap for a future version.

So after this thread, I think I’ve got it clearer in my own mind how to distinguish Bidule and Unify (hoping to be fair to both):

  • Bidule: Crazy powerful and flexible, and therefore a bit more complex general purpose plugin container and chainer utility.

  • Unify: Very powerful and a little easier to digest multi-synth and fx combo maker.

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UNIFY is the winner here for me! It re-creates Ableton’s Instrument rack with Macros. And it goes light years further!

With Ableton’s Macros, I could set each linked parameter’s low and high values so that some filters for instance only vary between set values while other go to the max. With Unify, you can even set the curve of how fast/slow this happens! And you can also start the curve at the top and go down, so when one parameter goes up, the other goes down.

My setup now is like the best of both worlds!!! And I don’t even need to bother with midi send channels anymore. My whole synth layer is nicely contained in a normal instrument channel.

All I did was right click the MACRO1 button, midi learn my CC74 controller and the selected the VST parameter that I want to link from a drop-down menu…