Minuet-Trio best practices inquiry

Hello there,
What is the best way to create a set of Walzes in the form of Walz+Trio, both AABB form, with D.C. al fine?

  1. One flow per piece, maybe using the Coda feature?
  2. Or one flow per Walz+one flow per Trio?
    How to make it playback as intended? AABB-CCDD-AB

After the first trials, where I have tried out a few things, I have found the following:

  1. if I make a single flow containing both Waltz & Trio, I have both key signature and time signature change at the end of the Waltz showing up as cautionaries. I would like to show the cautionary key signature, but not the cautionary time signature. Or, if this is not possible, not show anything. Besides, I do not need to see the start-repeat barline at the start of the Trio.
  2. if I make the Trio a Coda, I cannot also have the Fine at the end of the Walz, as it seems the two cancel out each other. If I then don’t want the start-repeat barline to show at the start of the Trio, I get an error in Playback Options.

Is my only real chance to have a flow for each Waltz and a flow for each Trio?
How would I manage playback in that case? —I mean, I can duplicate the waltz flow, move it after the trio, export audio from there, them make another score which excludes the duplicates but… is it the best?

Thank you for sharing your ideas and experience!

Waltz_trio.dorico (473.8 KB)

If it is one piece why split it into flows?

Just because I’m playing a chamber music arrangement at the moment, which is set rather bad. Don’t remove cautionary key-meter-changes! Except you want to fool the players.

In most literature I could find, the Trio restates the time signature even if it is the same as before (normally 3/4), but there is no cautionary for it (musically obvious).
It is a set of six waltz-trio pieces. So either 6 or 12 flows…

There are many reasons to split a single piece of music into multiple flows. Many, many, many.

From the very beginning, Daniel was clear that 1 flow ≠ “one piece of music”. It could be a few measures. It could be a whole movement. It could be a symphony. It could be a coda. It could be one verse…

The term “Flow” was specifically chosen because it was a [deliberately] agnostic term that wouldn’t carry any historo-musical baggage.


Thank you James!
How would you handle this specific scenario?

Of course I know that a flow isn’t a piece or movement etc. and it can be used for sereral other things. I just assumed that, for a “simple” piece like a Waltz & Trio, there’s no need to split the music, except you have some specific layout wishes in your head.

Here’s one of the threads, where this topic was discussed. Included are some workarounds. Most workarounds will kill a proper playback. So if you need a layout with a coda or an additional flow, you need dedicated solution (probably flow) for the playback.

A minuet, waltz, march etc., is typically one contiguous movement, albeit with several sections that may or may not get a separate title (Trio, Waltz 2, whatever). I’d keep everything in one flow, with easy use of (essential) cautionary key changes and (often superfluous) re-stating of time signatures. Use ‘coda’ separators wherever applicable, and don’t worry they’re not really codas. Splitting into separate flows will give you more headaches than needed. Rule of thumb: if the musicians are supposed to keep paying attention, it’s not a flow boundary.

Personally, I’d be tempted to keep everything within a single flow and misuse the coda function for system breaks between the menuettes and trios.

IF, however, you think you’d have any use for extracting single movements for whatever reason (collection of favorite movements or something) then I’d use independent flows for everything, because you could just assign specific flows to new layouts.

Thanks. It seems that the workaround would be to add the time signature as text… not ideal atm, even if it can work, as I’m a horizontal-spacing-control freak :innocent:

I appreciate the feedback, @PjotrB. Right now I have already divided things into flows, and since getting the time signature shown in the Trio but not as cautionary is higher in priority than having the cautionary time signature, I believe I am running out of options.

@Romanos : using a Coda would still prevent me from using the Fine and D.C. al Fine effectively for playback and, most of all, it would still oblige me to have a start-repeat barline at the beginning of the Trio, which should not be there.
Indeed, having multiple flows could allow me to duplicate all Menuets, move them after the respective trio, uncheck them in the printed score and use them only for a “playback layout”. Easier done than said :smiley: -

To easily add time signatures as text, create a paragraph style called “Time signatures” using MusGlyphs font set to 17pt staff-relative.

This will need a text object for each stave in the system (4 in this case), plus note-spacing adjustment, vertical alignment of text objects.
Sure, doable, but …

Note spacing gets all staves in one go. And you can select all the text objects and move them together, which is also easier.

For a text distance of 3 (Engraving Options–Text), it needs an offset of something like -6 5/16 I think.

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