No matter how I do it, I never get it to be in sync …
iMac for main VST live, and iPad for metronome… (or lyrics, those runs fine)
Looks like this is also related to no having tempo in 120…
So there is a pretty BIG BUG concerning tempo not being in 120… or is this just me.?
… I am so sorry. We’ll fix that.
See you,
Michael.
“VST Live MODS” Version 1.0.20 is online and it has fixed this problems.
See you,
Michael.
Ipad metronome is still out of sync
… is there anything you can add to it? It’s directly after you have been connected? After a song switch? Any special Signature, Tempo? Very hint will help us.
See you
Michael.
Hi, the Ipad is running about half a beat in front of the Laptop all of the time - I’ve tried restarting, closing down, reloading, changing songs, changing tempo - it happens all the time
Tried with different tempi? Always 1/2 beat, or constant time?
Also Apple Bonjour may get in the way.
Yes tried with different tempos, always constant half a beat in front. I got rid of bonjour
Thanks, will check again.
I have the same problem, and this is one of the main reasons for me to invest in VST Live 2.0 . The visual metronome. Here is a video showing the discrepancy, I tested in two different iPhone devices, one old iPhone 8 Plus and a more recent iPhone 13 Pro.
I am using 2.5.52 and VST Live Mods 1.5.0 (latest)
Hi @BalticoX ! Can u describe your WiFi connection, how devices are connected?
(Example>
mikrotik router
DHCP
no WAN is connected
Both the laptop and iPhone are on that same, dedicated WiFi )
Hello @fkalmus thanks for replying.
First, I think I tested this functionality in the past and did not notice the out of sync problem. But can’t be 100% sure.
Currently is easily reproduceable, I can create a new project, do nothing, click play, and metronome will be out of sync. On my old iPad you can even see how the green bar change from 1 to 2, then back to 1, then again to 2, then change from 2 to 3, swiftly goes back to 2, then changes to 3, and so on. On my iPhone i did not notice that, just that the iPhone seemed a few milliseconds in advance.
Even changing to a very low BPM like 30 its possible to notice the out of sync, setting the BPM to 10 allowed me to confirm that the delay is not proportional to the PBM, the out of sync is super noticeable but is not 1/4 bar or anything, its some milliseconds.
One important detail is that all devices are in sync, just out of sync with the laptop. I had two iphones and one ipad and they all three were on sync, but out of sync with the backing tracks.
Regarding my WiFi setup.
All the devices are connected to the same WiFi, and have the same network segment (192.168.10.X), both IPv4 and IPv6 is used on my LAN/WiFI, but I don’t know if IPv6 is really used. The WiFi router is provided my the Telecom company and do not have a Brand other the Xfinity by Comcast, it has a great coverage, but happens to be that my laptop and devices are in the same room as the router so basically, they all have super powerful signals. I tested connecting to a second WiFi device that its downstair connected as a bridge using coaxial cable (MoCA) and the out of sync was about the same, I reverted back to the strong signal and the same thing.
I do use DHCP, I have a reserved IP for the laptop, but not for the iPhones. My WiFi do have WAN and is connected to the Inernet, over 500 megabit/sec broadband through coaxial.
I am a computer engineer, feel free to ask for any kind of test. I can even try an older version of the software to check.
All the best,
Baltico
my observation - private test a “blackbox” - is, that as soon as VL and iOS app gets on net, they both broadcast packages constantly. Probably and hopefully developers will correct me/helping us understand more, but seems the only thing here happens is these broadcasts are containing the “iOS, please note we are here” information too.
So guessing all is about that iOS get’s these messages quickly. If not, but later… (slow ping, don’t know… just guessing) update will happen later, causing delay.
For sync, it needs to continuously send time info. Ping is measured but if too much is going on, it may fail. We’ll check again soon, Mods are high on the list again.
Hello, here is a link to a video, expires in one month from now. It was too heavy to upload.
Ping and Metronome.mp4
And here are a couple of screenshots from the same video:
Ping to the 3 devices . Not a bad ping, some over 100ms but most under 10ms
All devices in sync but really ahead of host application and sound
I have windows firewall off, antivirus off, no apple bonjour.
WiFi full information
SSID: XXXXXXXXXXX (redacted)
Protocol: Wi-Fi 6 (802.11ax)
Security type: WPA2-Personal
Manufacturer: Intel Corporation
Description: Killer(R) Wi-Fi 6 AX1650w 160MHz Wireless Network Adapter (200D2W)
Driver version: 23.110.0.5
Network band (channel): 5 GHz (44)
Aggregated link speed (Receive/Transmit): 1134/1134 (Mbps)
IPv6 address: 2601:586:c504:77f0::ac1a
2601:586:c504:77f0:6bb4:87a9:f285:f388
Link-local IPv6 address: fe80::f945:68ce:6898:b4a8%3
IPv6 default gateway: fe80::1e9e:ccff:fed2:64b3%3
IPv6 DNS servers: 2001:558:feed::1 (Unencrypted)
2001:558:feed::2 (Unencrypted)
2001:558:feed::1 (Unencrypted)
2001:558:feed::2 (Unencrypted)
IPv4 address: 192.168.10.99
IPv4 DNS servers: 75.75.75.75 (Unencrypted)
75.75.76.76 (Unencrypted)
Physical address (MAC): XX:XX:XX:XX:XX:XX (redacted)
I wonder how come that a local network joined client gets 75.75.75.75 as IPv4DNS server from DHCP? We usually querry local dns-srv first for multiple reasons. (But probably this case I wont count, but suggesting you to revise this… e.g.: router’s IP)
Is there a way to test with an older version of VST Live 2.0 ? I have the idea that the firt time I tested this it worked fine, but can’t be sure. 3 month ago and it was just a test back then.
I checked on the router admin page (192.168.10.1) and there is no way to change DNS on the router. But it is still obtained through DHCP
This dns host is from my cable provider which makes sense.
cdns01.comcast.net [75.75.75.75]
DNS delay is very low, less than 20ms
I could manually change the DNS on my laptop, but then I have to do this manually on all devices which is super tedious. I am going to setup a new WiFi using an Apple Airport Express which I was planning to configure anyways, since during the show I will need a private WiFi Network and all devices connected to it.
I will post the results with the new router/wifi. Just bear in mind I am not the only one with the issue, since @Simon_Evans was the original reporter.
I found an old version on another post, uninstalled, installed that one, performed the test and the same issues persisted. I hope this is useful. I will proceed to try different router/WiFi setup.
I used Version 2.1.1 (13.09.2024)
Thank you all for helping with this issue - its now going over my head but I appreciate the effort you are all going to - good luck in finding the fix!
Hello @fkalmus @musicullum
Sadly testing with a new router and different WiFi settings rendered the same result, devices running the iOS App are ahead of time. Here are some more details
I setup a new WiFi router, Apple Airport Express with latest firmware… this devices are nice because they support AirPlay 2 . Anyways the new network segment is 192.168.11.X, this device has a resolver so the DNS is 192.168.11.1 same as the default gateway.
Ping to iPhone 8 and iPhone 12 is less than 20 milliseconds. All devices withing 2 meters of WiFi router, so signal is super strong.
At this point I think this has nothing to do with WiFi…
What other parameters are taking into account for delay calculation? I bet the problem is related to iOS App thinking there is a bigger delay than it really is, so it goes ahead of time trying to compensate for the delay…
But audio interfaces also introduce delay right? My laptop metronome is perfectly synched with the audio, and I have a buffer of 96 so I can play soft synth and virtual drums without any perceptible delay.
My sound card just in case is related is:
Zoom L-20 ASIO Driver
Sample Rate 48000
Buffer Size 96
Please help me think what variables are accounted when trying to calculate the delay.
Suggestion:
In the iOS App or on the Host VST Live 2.0 show the estimated delay used to compensate. This will be handy for debugging. Better still if this value could be manually overridden, to solve issues like this one. Of course this makes sense only if there is such thing a delay compensating value… which I think must exist, since the iOS App is ahead of time, otherwise it will be lagged, the more delay, the more lag, but to be ahead of time it means there is something trying to compensate.
Have a great weekend and thanks
