I feel like this is probably already on the team’s radar, and forgive me if it’s been mentioned already, because it seems like a kind of obvious choice for a modulator - that is, in addition to envelope followers, I’d love to have envelope generators (or basically, midi-based envelopes, with various shapes as well as adjustable response curves from lin/exp). And rather than side-chaining to an awkward setup utilizing another midi track, it should work from midi which is on the track you’re using.
Basic use case: you load an instrument track, let’s say something which is not a synth like a piano, but you want to add a synth-like filter using an ADSR style envelope. It would be great to then attach an ADSR or AD envelope to an EQ plugin. You could have more creative fun sending this envelope to effects, like a delay mix.
On the topic of using midi from the track, you could also affect other modulators, like LFOs (changing LFO speed with modwheel for example). Ideally you could also use different sources of midi: that is, trigger, gate, velocity, keyboard, aftertouch/pressure, modwheel, etc. You could do a lot of fun and creative things routing these midi inputs to effects like delay/reverb/distortion, like say you could increase a reverb mix with the modwheel and distortion with velocity and more delay with aftertouch - the possibilities are endless.
Well, using the mode wheel (or any other CC) for modulating parameters is already possible with Quick Controls.
For the Envelopes automating stuff I would generally prefer to use a dedicated multieffect plugin that includes such features (like Zebrify e.g.) and trigger them via MIDI input, because those are optimized for fast modulation, whereas your regular EQ plugin for example is not, and the automation precision will depend on the buffer size, and depending on what you modulate, you can get artifacts like distortion and whatnot.
I agree it would be really nice to be able to also have the MIDI sends from MIDI channels on instruments channel, though, so you can send the MIDI data from the instrument track itself to the input of any effects plugin.
Personally I rather don’t like this idea. It would mean to define certain midi parameters that ought to not go to the instrument but only to the modulator. I find adding a midi sidechain much more elegant for this. Also, midi sidechaining allows to address modulators on audio tracks.
So, above script needs a midi sidechain track.
Trigger is basically Note On and already available in the ModScripter. So is velocity. Gate is not a midi parameter, ie. I don’t understand what you mean with Gate. Maybe Note Off?
BTW - if you want to midi control the six knobs from the ADSR script you can use the Generic Purpose Controller 1-6 for this task.
I appreciate your responses, but I do think having the common musical methodology of modulation sources from the world of synthesis – envelope generators in addition to the already existing envelope followers – is not a hot take or wild idea. For many people making music, this is not only familiar, but also very straightforward and immediate.
I’m not a coder or software engineer, so apart from copying your modscript, well, I have no idea how I would build or alter something like that myself. I imagine many other musicians would feel the same way – it’s fine as a workaround, but ultimately the feature request is to have EGs natively without having to learn how to code. And of course if I need to add an ADSR, I’d have to save this script somewhere or refer back to this thread every time - so the request would be to just add an ADSR as a modulator, simply.
Why not have the option? You can of course continue to side chain. When recording something live, I have to set up two channels (the instrument track and the midi track), both set to record, and for the most part the workflow isn’t immediately intuitive. The secondary midi channel feels redundant and convoluted to me personally.
I have noticed as well with effects plugins that accept midi inputs, you have to do a second track just to get them to work - when you’re already using it on a track which uses midi as an input (i.e., an instrument track). Kilohearts SnapHeap is a good example of this, it allows you to add midi-based modulation sources, so intuitively you would expect you can use the midi that is already incoming on that track and route it directly. But instead you have to do the whole additional track thing, which personally I don’t find elegant (but I respect your viewpoint on that!).
Got it, I wasn’t sure if gate could be implemented as Note On + Note Off. I’m not sure how it works with synths on the whole and midi (I just know that it’s a possible option often with synths, for example).
Copy that, I’ll look into it. I haven’t had a lot of luck with the QCs in general, they don’t always seem to work with me.
Could be, possibly, though I would prefer to not purchase any new plugins for the job; but also there’s a use case for using envelopes in the instrument itself (not an effect plugin); for example with a vintage synth style plugin that has only one or two EGs built in (e.g. Most Juno106 and SH101 plugins, just like the original synths only have a single envelope!), you could add more and perhaps route them to more complex directions than the instrument allows, cheating a more complex mod matrix. Or if it’s not a synth, maybe you could do an envelope to something in the plugin - for example some Spitfire instruments have filter, reverb, expression etc built in - would be cool to ADSR those.
As for EQ plugins, I mostly use FabFilter ProQ and Volcano - both of which are really good at this I have found. Volcano internally has sources of modulation and is rather sprightly. I don’t fear that they couldn’t handle ADSR – but I do totally understand your point, not all effects and not all user’s computers could handle snappy envelopes without buffering and glitching. I’d at least love the option to try
To me it sounds you are overcomplicating things.
Create a ModScripter, delete all the code that is in there already, paste the code from Arne into the code window. Then save this as a preset.
From now on you’ll only load the preset. Super simple.
Have you actually copied the script already? Have you started to use the ADSR script?
I mainly just meant that while it’s fine as a workaround, it’s still besides the point of my original feature request – which I would still put forth and hope that the team will implement it. For not only myself but also future users – from a musical standpoint, anyone with basic experience using synths are already familiar with EGs, so it just makes practical sense to have it as a option in the modulators.
Regarding the script, another thing I meant is that what if I want just an AD, AHD, AHDSR, etc. While ADSR is likely the most common, I wouldn’t know the first thing about modifying that code to create an AHD for example. I will be using the ADSR script for the time being of course, it is helpful to have.
I realize the modulators feature is new, but I feel having EGs would add value and be a no-brainer modulation source for users to just quickly and easily add in a way that is also common and familiar.
My point is: the EG feature that you ask for is already there. That is why we have the ModScripter- we can quickly have new modulators.
If you only want an AD envelope than put the other paramterers to a “neutral” position.
As for the Hold parameter - I will take a look at it. You don’t have to do the coding yourself. You just need to find somebody else to do it for you (no joke). Somebody even found out how to use ChatGPT to create the script if you tell what you want.
I see your point, but I am sure other users in search of an envelope would also expect to see a pre-made selection of EGs to select from, which would be most intuitive. I don’t think we can assume all users would think “oh, obviously I need to code an envelope, easy.”
For those of us who are unfamiliar with scripting, working late at 2am and wanting an EG at last minute without seeking assistance which may take a lot longer to get a response, I do think the software could provide EGs as we are familiar. As an example, I really like how Kilohearts SnapHeap does it, you can basically select from a big list of modulators as such:
In the end, it is your feature-request. I merely wanted to show you that your requested feature is already available in Cubase right now. If you don’t like the implementation, that is your good right.
I find it is a bit similiar to not using the Logical Editor and insisting that Steinberg needs to implement everything as a dedicated feature.
A part of me still thinks that you just dislike the ModScripter and haven’t even tried using it yet.
Small hint: check out the other presets of the ModScripter. You’ll find additional modulators there, e.g. a couple of randomizers.
I was being slightly hyperbolic to prove a point that it’s a bit of going the long route for what is otherwise a basic and common source of modulation. I am pretty technical but I work with a lot of musicians who are far less computer savvy than I am, and I am sure they won’t think of “modscripter” and googling/asking around for a code to copy/paste as the obvious choice to obtain a simple envelope. That is my main point; it’s not to say the modscripter is not useable for the job, it’s just that I’m asking for a simpler, direct approach which doesn’t require copy & paste or asking around. Just as shown in my screenshot how Kilohearts does it - you right click, and it’s all right there ready to go. Simple, intuitive.
I mean again that could make sense if what I’m asking for is a rare, off-the-beaten path type of modulation, advanced or uncommon. But EGs are pretty basic and utilitarian, mod 101 I think.
I will look into that, thank you. But in the name “ModScripter,” it assumes advanced modulation and code. I don’t think it’s the first place most people would think for an envelope, but I could be wrong. But it’ll do for now, I appreciate you pointing the way.
On Windows the file needs to go here: %userprofile%\Documents\VST3 Presets\Steinberg Media Technologies\ModScripter
And while I am at it, here is a preset that will turn any modulation signal into a pulse signal. You’ll have to connect the output of any modulator to the Input parameter of ModScripter. It’s like converting a regular controller into a sustain pedal on/off type signal, just for modulators.
Thank you for taking the time to do that! Added and played around. Works great, and also thank you for the additional Pulser preset, that will come in handy. FWIW I also had a look around at the other presets too
I am not sure if this is possible in ModScripter but ideally part of my original feature request too would be EGs with ability to manipulate the response curves. I’d have no idea where to start but curious if it can be done.
Sorry to keep bringing up my SnapHeap example, but something like this would be the dream per my original request, if any Steinberg Devs happen to read this far:
Granular control over every part of the envelope, including curves etc.
Generally I think it would be possible but we can define only up to eight parameters in ModScripter and the current script already uses six. So one existing parameter will have to go in order to get 3 curve shapers in there.
Furthermore it won’t be possible to do on the graph, since there is no graph in ModScripter. Only rotary knobs are possible.
The Shaper modulator would almost be perfect for creating a graphically shapeable envelope. Unfortunately there is no control to restart the phase upon MIDI Note input, so sometimes you get the full envelope, other times you get only a fraction of it.
Let’s see, maybe Steinberg will create such a modulator as per your feature-request.
@wing
I just realized that if you change the Shaper from “Note” to “Freq”(uency) the cycle will trigger according to the Phase parameter. So maybe the Shaper can be helpful to you.
