This is a stupid question and I know the answer will be “no” but is there anyway to assign the “natural” technique of an instrument to one VST the “legato” to another?
I think you might be able to achieve this by assigning the respective notes to different voices, and then assigning those voices to different midi channels. Someone else will have to confirm though. (Cumbersome workaround, I know.)
could you give a concrete example of what you’re trying to achieve?
Sure!
I have two sample libraries. They’re both great but #1 does strings generally a bit more effectively than #2.
However, #2 has a great plain sustain patch, with a nice attack and almost no release (which I want).
Ideally, I’d have this patch as my “natural” sound and the rest Eg pizz blah blah blah coming out of #1.
I’m hoping VEP might be on a decent price at the end of the month. I’m still researching if this would solve my problem though.
You can do it with VEP, I don’t see how without.
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@Romanos hello,
I suppose @DanielMuzMurray has in mind something like Multi-Instruments function in Studio One. Something really nice, but unfortunately not available in any Steinberg product, nor in VE Pro.
For more information check here:
This function could allow multi-library layering, which is common practice in the film scoring industry, when the soundtrack is performed only by virtual instruments.
Of course for the needs of Dorico and Cubase/Nuendo it should be designed in more advanced way.
The different libraries are sampled differently, some libraries has more articulations than others, there are some differences in the Control Interface of the libraries, so we’ll need to have control over CC, Velocity, Expression Maps… and all other parameters per layer… Which means the Expression Maps function needs to move to next level in both Dorico and Cubase/Nuendo. It has to become more flexible and multi-directional (to have opportunity to assign multiple KeySwitches and Program Changes to a single articulation and to route them to multiple channels and ports). Of course we’ll need to be able to change the routing even per single note or symbol basis, directly in the Score.
Greetings,
Thurisaz 
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If both instruments are routed to the same track, couldn’t you define “natural” for sustain so that it triggers the sound you need in instrument #1 and triggers a blank in instrument #2 (meaning the keyswitch works the same but there’s no sound assigned to it in this case).
And then define legato in the opposite direction: it triggers sound in instrument #2 and triggers a “blank” in instrument #1.
If both are in Kontakt, you could even load them in the same instance. Even better if there is an option to load a single sustain articulation just for this.
I understand what you mean.
I’m not sure it’s possible to route an instrument to two different VST at once if only one of them is Kontakt. (The other is Play).
I agree that VEPro gives the best flexibility for mixing and matching instruments. Say you like the legato from a VSL violin but prefer the staccato and tremolo from some Kontakt VST. You could put this into different channels with VEPro but the problem is that, unlike with a DAW, it could become pretty fiddly to integrate this all into a score in notation software with hiding staves, using divisi etc. That seems to be the main issue here.
Blending sounds on the same channel from different libraries is no problem with VEPro and many do this although not me so far. However that’s not what you’re looking at here, I think.
VEPro is quite often reduced by around €50 but I’m not sure if they will do it for Black Friday. You’ll just need to keep an eye open!
No, I think we’re on the same page.
I want to send all the music from one instrument to VEP.
- I’d have one playing technique with Play and the rest with Cinesamples.
- I’d have that one technique on Channel 1 and the rest 2-16.
- I’d make sure in Play that there was nothing on Channels 2-16, and in Cinesamples that there was nothing on Channel 1.
This sounds right, right?
perhaps this plugin:
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Hey! That’s cool!
I am not understanding why you want to allocate each technique to its own MIDI channel. Apologies if I’m just too dense but since this is strings and assuming you’ll want divisi later, this sounds like a massive complication to me that might lead to problems. So I must be missing something…
If your Violins I are routed to a single midi channel in VEPro then all you need to do is insert another plugin (say Play) there and have it receive on the same MIDI channel and output to the same audio bus. It only needs a single keyswitch activated, for legato, that is reserved for that and avoided in Cinesamples. That’s it.
It seems to me that MIDI channels as a routing tool are best reserved and carefully planned upfront for things like divisi and independent voice playback. Again, sorry if I’m missing something quite obvious.
Probably because that was a method I suggested in the very first reply. Clearly there are other ways to do it though. (that are better)
Your idea is fine - the issue is that for VST that you are hosting inside Dorico, you can only send to one of them - not multiple on the same channel - unless you use voices as mentioned. (Currently at least, and as far as I know. )
Or you you use something like that PatchBay, but honestly at that level I think you are better off doing the layering in a DAW.
You can of course use a MIDI endpoint instead to send to any external VST that may be listening on a port /channel.
Perhaps this is the source of my confusion - I was under the impression that VEPro was part of the intended setup. My bad!
As for MIDI endpoint instead of VST, yes - that’s what I use in my own setup along with a MIDI processor inserted into the chain. Perhaps counterintuitively, I find that it gives me several extra levels of flexibility without becoming unwieldy. Tiny file sizes and lighting fast save times of course being a nice bonus feature.
That works just fine
by the way, I just got a newsletter that VEPro will be on sale 22-30th Nov if that’s of interest
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@ebrooks
Just trying out what you’ve suggested re VEP and having Play/CS on same channel there. I have that working fine I think. ie an instrument is triggering both VST at once.
I’m not understanding how the keyswitch suggestion works though? It’s likely that I’ve missed something important!
Say I have my CS articulation keyswitches set from C0-G0, and then I want to allocate C2 for my Play keyswitch (which CS doesn’t use).
If I switch from C0 to C2 (CS to Play), what’s stopping the C0 articulation from sounding in VEP? Won’t it still play until I hit another CS keyswitch, and then the same for it?
I’d say just test it. It depends on how the library is programmed. Generally, in order for an instrument to stop making sound, the Expression Map has to send a Note-Off message (just like it has to send Note-On to trigger a sound) and the instrument has to react to key presses/release according to how it’s programmed.
In Latch mode the note will sound until a different note is pressed, so it’ll keep sounding even if you release the key. In Standard mode the note will sound only while it is pressed. I don’t have either CS or Play so I can’t say, but e.g. Spitfire allows you to switch freely between these two modes. Cubase allows only one mode per project, IIRC, from inside the Expression Map. But I do think “key release=note off” is the more common method especially for keyboard.