Need help with proper placement of DS Al Fine, Coda, etc.. in order to play in ABACADA Coda (Rondo form)

Hello

Is there any way that Dorico could PLAY the correct sequence of A - B - A - C - A - D - A - Coda?

Thank you for your help!

Best wishes!

How is it written out for the performer? In theory, if there’s a repeat structure that makes that progression clear to the performer, it will work in Dorico too.

If, however, you expect the performer to know by convention rather than by explicitly notating it, then I’m afraid there’s no way to set an arbitrary playback order for bars in the software at present.

Thank you for your answer! In Sibelius there is the feature to create a Playback order: (s. Picture)

…and Daniel has confirmed in his reply to you that there is not presently an equivalent feature in Dorico.

…What a pity! It would be great to include this feature in Dorico as quick as possible. After all, it’s the aim to establish Dorico as the “best notation software” on the market…

I’d be interested to know how you notate the ‘skip’ from the end of A for the 2nd and 3rd time to C and D respectively. Presumably you’d have to have 2nd and 3rd time bars with Dal Segnos? Or would you use “To Coda”, making C and D Codas too?

This could be done easily enough with just repeat endings.
Of course one might have very extended Ending Lines.


ABACADACoda.zip (479 KB)

I think B C and D are going to be entire themes here, not just a few measures!

Of course.That’s why I said the repeat ending lines may be long, although that might be configurable.
https://steinberg.help/dorico_pro/v2/en/dorico/topics/notation_reference/notation_reference_repeat_endings_final_segments_changing_individually_t.html?hl=repeat%2Cendings%2Cengrave%2Cmode

Derrek, that only affects the length of the final segment - i.e. the one over the coda, in the earlier screenshot.

I mean you could but the repeat structure wouldn’t be the easiest thing to follow. Usually rondos are just written out to avoid turning multiple pages at once and to avoid any confusion with multiple codas and several large jumps between sections.
https://i.imgur.com/TTRUrre.png

I seldom use repeats for structure, preferring to write out the repeated material (especially since it lets me add to the scoring or ornamentation) although those dealing with historic music may have different needs.

I absolutely agree. This is a deal breaker for me. Sibelius has it, and I can’t do my work without it. I score a lot of chôro music, at least half of which is in some variation of ABACA form. Without multiple symbols in addition to the crosshairs symbol to denoting where to jump next, you can’t produce a workable playback. I came looking to Dorico for some fresh ideas and now I leave disappointed. I was going to do a crossgrade from Sibelius when my subscription period is up, but I guess not.
I can’t post an image of a copyrighted score, but I can refer interested readers to scribd.com for the book “Chôro Songbook no. 1” (or 2 or 3) by Almir Chediak. The elegant solution to this notation problem is exemplified throughout this series.

Welcome to the forum, spencered. I believe I found the Chediak book on the Internet Archive here, and after a quick flick through the first 20-30 pages, I can’t see anything that Dorico can’t handle notationally. Can you say a bit more about the problems you’ve had trying to reproduce this notation in your own projects?

Hello Daniel

Thanks for looking into our problem!

For me, the problem is to PLAYBACK correctly a sequence of e.g. ABACADAE…

If I am informed correctly, Dorico 3.1.10 is not yet able to playback sequences correctly…?

As in my first message, Sibelius IS able to do this!

(see attached jpg: 20190814 PLAYBACK playback of sequences)

Dorico should definitely be able to provide that…

I’m glad to hear your feedback…

P.S. I’m an enthusiastic Dorico fan!!! :smiley:

Best regards

Guido Bissig

Is this what you say Dorico cannot do?
ABACADAexample.zip (403 KB)
(You can set the ending markers and lines to “Custom Size” 1 pt in the properties panel and then add your own directions via SHIFT+X or SHIFT+ALT+X Text if you wish.)

Hello Derrek

Thank you very much for your file! It works! Great!!

Now the only missing feature is the possibility to arrange a playback sequence individually. E.g. bar 1-5 + bar 20-30, so that you can export this playback sequence e.g. as audio…

You should also be able to see an overview bar where the playback is currently located in the OVERALL sequence (incl. repetitions), so that you can navigate there directly…

Or is this possibility (as it is in Sibelius) also available in Dorico 3 and I missed it…?

Thank you for taking time!

Best wishes!

GB

I’m afraid I do not know what you are asking.

– “arrange a playback sequence individually” ?
– “see an overview bar” ?

He’s asking for the equivalent of the feature in Sibelius that allows you to determine explicitly the order in which the bars in the flow should be played back; see post #3 in this thread.

Since my German is not the equal of lycalp’s English, does this mean that individual players can play in different order or is it merely an easier way to set up a rondo-like structure for the ensemble?

I’m guessing my solution would work to play the rondo structure presented, just not be as simple to implement as the SIbelius routine. Is that a fair statement?