Notation for synthesizer to play an octave or two higher than written

[Gregg_Butterfield]

When writing for a synthesizer with a grand staff with a split at middle C (the treble clef staff set to one patch and the bass clef set to another patch), is there a good way to notate, in a way that will play back correctly, that the player should set a particular split to play an octave or two (or more) higher than written?

I have tried using an octave line, but that doesn’t really capture what is happening. Plus an octave line across an entire flow gets in the way and when I am trying to select something else I accidentally select the octave line as well and, if I don’t notice what I did, I can end up moving it to a different staff (or some other unintended action).

I looked setting playback techniques and doing the transposition with an expression map but it doesn’t look straight forward at all. The split I am working with now is using Garritan Instruments for Finale strings. The expression map includes Legato, Natural, Pizzicato and Tremolo techniques. The Volume dynamic and use of the Secondary dynamic is different from technique to technique. So, if I add a technique to do a transposition, will its volume settings override those of the other techniques? From what I understand, the interaction of various techniques is complex. It’s also possible that the volume settings in my GIF Strings expression map are not correct. I will have to try to find some work I did some time ago when setting up the Garritan expression maps. I did start with expression maps created by someone on this forum.

Any thoughts? It seems like there ought to be a simple way to set playback on one staff of a grand staff to transpose up or down.

[derAbgang]

@Gregg_Butterfield

Any thoughts?

You can grab an octava clef and hide it: treble8 or f+8 (in the uncommon category).

[Gregg_Butterfield]

I tried hiding the octave bar. But, in Write mode, the notes then went back up to the position of their actual pitches. I need them to stay down an octave to make it easy for me to see spots where I have notes at or above middle C, where the patch changes.

[Gregg_Butterfield]

If you are talking about a clef, instead of an octave bar, the only clef that seems to actually transpose pitches is the play an octave below what is written treble clef, which is used for tenor singers. I haven’t found that any of the other transposing clefs actually affect the transposition of playback.

[derAbgang]

@Gregg_Butterfield

If you are talking about a clef

yes. I don’t use them very often but I’m surprised the octava f8 doesn’t function like (opposite of, actually) the treble8. I’m not going to lose sleep over it, never actually used it, but thought the two would be perfect for your use case.

[dtoub]

Honestly, I gave up on 8va and 15va lines a long time ago because they get cumbersome to read. Even when I’ve written notes at the highest and lowest depths of a farfisa or piano, I just write things out. Interestingly, at least one pianist had no issue with it, and I also found that Feldman frequently did the same thing.

Here’s a work of mine that was recently released on CD and I also attended a performance last year in Brussel:

And here’s an excerpt from Feldman’s Triadic Memories:

[asherber]

How about:

1. Add a staff above at the spot where it’s needed

2. Use Duplicate to Staff Above to copy notes from the original staff

3. Transpose the notes in the new staff to their playback octave

4. Remove the playback staff

5. Suppress playback on the notes in the original staff

Hidden octave playback.dorico (551.2 KB)

[rawmuse]

Wow, my brain shuts down after 5 leger lines… Additionally it eats up a lot of vertical space between staves. But, you do you,

[dtoub]

Yeah but oddly, performers seem ok with it. There are many recordings of the Feldman, and compared with his other notational quirks, this one is pretty mild. And I think with my stuff, since I’ve had two recordings come out performed by a great pianist who never kvetched about anything notationally, it’s somehow fine. And if it were me, I’d just write in the pitches above the notes as a cheat sheet…

[Janus]

@dtoub

And if it were me, I’d just write in the pitches above the notes as a cheat sheet…

Which is precisely what 8ve lines avoid the need for!

[Gregg_Butterfield]

Wouldn’t work in my case. I’m writing for a synthesizer with a split. The upper split is not transposed. The synthesizer needs to transpose the lower split up one to two octaves, depending on the flow.

[Janus]

@Gregg_Butterfield

The synthesizer needs to transpose the lower split up one to two octaves, depending on the flow.

You can do that with a playing technique and expression map entry that transposes up the required amount.

[dtoub]

So I’ve heard.

[Gregg_Butterfield]

I looked at that but I was concerned about how the transposition technique would play with the other techniques in the expression map. I was concerned about the dynamic setting being different from technique to technique. But, techniques with a key switch that change to a different sound (natural versus pizzicato for example) would mean a patch change on the synthesizer, so I guess I can just use the natural technique to simulate a strings patch on the synthesizer and set the transposition technique to use the same dynamic settings that the natural technique does. I do have some flows where I would like to use pizzicato. I’ll deal with that when I get to it, but it means that the synth player would have to switch patches in the middle of a song.

[Janus]

@Gregg_Butterfield

I looked at that but I was concerned about how the transposition technique would play with the other techniques in the expression map.

You would need to create different playing/playback techniques and expression map entries for each 8ve transposition.

But I fear you are over-complicating the problem.

For much of what you want to achieve, I think the simplest solution is to give your players multiple instruments - and probably not grand staff instruments. This would allow you to set a different expression map for each (which could include 8ve transpositions). Dorico will handle the changeovers and you can route each to the appropriate patch for playback.

[gdball]

I think of things like this from a players perspective as being like setting up separate patches or manuals. There is some setup expected in advanced on the synth side which the composer has to explain - sort of like registration - and the score then quietly has a text notation for which “manual” to use. Those organ players, they’ve learned some things over the millennia IMO. which I shamelessly borrow.

To me - the reasons to choose this are: People have different keyboard rigs, and whether it’s a split or not, a separate keyboard or not, the “how” they might write in for themselves. More important though if there is much switching back and forth I want to avoid mental and score clutter - and a Roman numeral with a period is a low drama manual/reference that can be a readable playing technique- and you only need to define a few of them for all your writing.

My expectation is that its the SYNTHESIZER patch/config that has the magic. The Dorico playing technique is just a trigger for it. Those capabilities are very much up to the synth but transposing - you know - is a pretty common capability to expect I think.

FWIW, I make the patch, describe the “registration” including describing octaves using the 2’ 4’ 8’ type notation ‘cause it’s compact and I think avoids any confusion about sound versus which keys to actually press - and keep the score as quiet as I can. I’m just being me though. Plus - actual pitch is often not that simple if a synth has motion or stacking.

[Gregg_Butterfield]

Thanks. That’s a lot to think about.

[Gregg_Butterfield]

I have been experimenting. I wanted to see if I could find a way to use Dorico’s instrument change warnings to automatically notate patch changes and also the octave setting for the patch.

This is not final. It is a proof of concept.

So I created a new instrument family:
Library>Instrument Families… then used the dialog box (left hand pane) to create two now instrument families, Synth 1 and Synth 2 as I plan to use two synthesizers in the five player reduction of my full score.

Next I created some new instruments:
Library>Instruments… and I created five new instruments:
Two for the treble clef:
S1aP1
S1aP2
And four for the base clef:
S1bP1
S1bP2
S1bP2+v8 Transposition set so middle C sounds as C5
S1bP2+v15 Transposition set so middle C sounds as C6

Routing each of these to it’s own endpoint makes them the equivalent of a patch on a synthesizer. Note that I have not done the endpoint routing in the attached example.

Then, in Setup mode, I added two Players and then added two of my new instruments to them. (I could have added more instruments to each player.)

I have been experimenting. I wanted to see if I could find a way to use Dorico’s instrument change warnings to automatically notate patch changes and also the octave setting for the patch.

This is not final. It is a proof of concept.

So I created a new instrument family:
Library>Instrument Families… then used the dialog box (left hand pane) to create two now instrument families, Synth 1 and Synth 2 as I plan to use two synthesizers in the five player reduction of my full score.

Next I created some new instruments:
Library>Instruments… and I created five new instruments:
Two for the treble clef:
S1aP1
S1aP2
And four for the base clef:
S1bP1
S1bP2
S1bP2+v8 Transposition set so middle C sounds as C5
S1bP2+v15 Transposition set so middle C sounds as C6

Routing each of these to it’s own endpoint makes them the equivalent of a patch on a synthesizer. Note that I have not done the endpoint routing in the attached example.

Then, in Setup mode, I added two Players and then added two of my new instruments to them. (I could have added more instruments to each player.)

Then I wrote a few measures using both players to show the patch change notification along with the warning a few measures ahead of the change. Note that I am treating it as a synthesizer with a split, even though an actual synth player might have other ideas about how to accomplish what I want.

Since all of these instruments are in the same family, they get bracketed together. Note that this is a full score layout, not a part layout. As I said before, this is just a proof of concept.

Stone Ship 260912 5 piece reduction - Act I, Scene 7 — He Looks Like Love.dorico (1.6 MB)

[Gregg_Butterfield]

After sleeping on it, I made a change to the convention for instrument names.

S1(or 2) = Synthesizer 1, 2, 3, etc.

:R(or L) = Hand L=Left R=Right

1(or 2) = Patch Number 1, 2, 3, etc.

+1(or 2 or blank) = Number of octaves up or down to set the patch to

If I use this I would put a note describing the convention, along with the sound I want for each patch, at the start of the score.

I think this could work.