Arne @Wallander
But am I correct that Cinematic Studio Solo Strings, being part of the Studio Series will work okay with NP4?
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@Derrek Yes, can confirm that it works perfectly. And it doesn’t even need a lot of RAM. (I have only 8 GB.)
@Wallander On the score of modelled instruments, do you have any plans for supporting Pianoteq? Also, how about Hauptwerk? I would love it if NotePerformer could someday handle organ stops in a more or less ‘natural’ way.
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That would be wonderful! 
In fairness to you I think most readers would understand you were complimenting the NotePerformer team (not sure if it is all Arne or others, too) rather than disparaging the Dorico team we esteem so highly. Both are incredible and Arne and his team certainly deserve the highest praise. How lucky we are to have 2 such helpful and committed teams!
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yes. Because of the memory demands of having to running multiple Kontakt instances under the hood (which isn’t necessary of course if you use VE Pro or something), my 32Gb RAM won’t cut it. It will run with full orchestra but only just and with some cutouts. If you have at least 64Mb --which is what is anyway specified in the system requirements – then by all means give it a go. Mind you, I should try just the solo strings on their own. That might be interesting.
Hi @MarcLarcher,
Would be really nice if you can share just an audio of the problematic strings part of the Adagietto movement. 
I would like to hear how exactly it sounds.
Best wishes,
Thurisaz
Hi @Wallander,
Arne, may I leave here two suggestions for the next updates?
- Would be nice if we are having more control over the AI Performance of the NPPE.
- That way we would be able to leave our own fingerprint. Otherwise everyone who uses both NPPE and BBC SO Pro, for example, will sound the same.
- An option that will allow us to act as a “virtual conductors” will be very welcomed.
- Still I think, that NPPE should be able to support VE Pro, no matter that it offers a similar functionality, still many people relay on VE Pro as virtual instruments host.
- VE Pro is not only a host platform, but it also offers remote connection, fully functional mix console, automation and 3D positioning when MIR is involved.
- By the time Dorico becomes more and more closer to the DAW, which means it will become more and more comfortable for film music scoring by using high-end libraries. Here VE Pro is a the game player without an analog… Most probably you’ll to collaborate with VSL on this improvement. No doubt that all VE Pro users here will be very thankful for such support!
Best regards,
Thurisaz
That is not a given, and I don’t think it is a goal of Dorico development.
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I think the problem has mostly disappeared in the version I have posted in the thread earlier, but I hear this strange effect towards the end of the piece (last minute, long low notes).
Thank you for the suggestions!
Manually controlling the performance isn’t feasible, unfortunately. The primary function of NPPE/NotePerformer’s performance rules are problem correction and targeting the right dynamic, timing, and phrasing as far as that’s possible. We have no simple dials to turn to make the music better or worse. Suppose an NPPE note is played too loud, for example. In that case, that’s not our intentional interpretation. Typically, it’s a case where the library may only have three levels of dynamics to choose from, while your score has eight levels between PPP and FFF, so there’s no closer sound available. Even if you alter the volume of a sound to produce an intermediate dynamic, the discrepancy is audible.
The idea of the virtual conductor isn’t new, but it’s like rocket science and a lifetime project outside our scope. We’re a small company where I program everything. I will leave that for someone else to pursue.
Regarding VEP support. These advanced features would only benefit a small subset of our users with advanced skills and special software beyond that of a sample library. Implementing them would halt all other development for a long time. If you want advanced mixing facilities in MIR or other plug-ins, you can route NPPE instruments to 16 different outputs in Dorico and set up a personal version. The VST ecosystem was made so users with particular needs could spend their time creating a custom setup. It’s not feasible for companies to tailor a program for every user.
It’s also important to remember: If you want control over the slightest nuance of performance and sound, that’s the primary function of a DAW, such as Cubase. The primary function of a notation program is print. It’s Microsoft Word for music. We’re working with a secondary part of a program that can be likened to text-to-speech but more complicated.
Analogously, the function of NPPE is not to replace all the functions of the DAW but to remove 90% of the problems of using sample libraries in a notation program.
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I just wanted to inquire about the best workflow with levels / compression / clipping, etc. I know the NP4 mixer optimizes levels across libraries, but does it account at all for clipping or do any sort of compression to leave headroom?
I’m asking because I own BBCSO Pro and the NP playback engine for it and I was going to post @dan_kreider’s sample file from this thread for comparison. Using that file with NP4 with the BBCSO Pro engine loaded, all Dorico levels flat, NPs reverb, and no other plug-ins in Dorico’s mixer (so the default reverb and compression removed) I end up with this:
I suppose this result isn’t at all unexpected with a larger ensemble like this, but it does mean NPPE isn’t quite as simple as load the library or libraries and go. All the individual levels in the NP4 mixer seem ok, it’s just the cumulative output that is pretty clipped.
Obviously I can drag the Master fader down or add a compressor, but I just wanted to see if NP4 is doing any of that internally as well, since I know it is doing some of its own balancing.
(It sure would be nice if Dorico’s mixer had dB levels and the usual green/yellow/red indications.)
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although I can’t run the full Cinematic Studio orchestra, I thought I’d try the solo strings on their own and there are some good things here, particularly the very natural attack at the beginning of legatos for instance and intelligent phrasing. However, it seems portamento has not been implemented (should be activated with velocity on under 20 for the 2nd note normally but I find no way to activate it) which is a major drawback with this particular library if true. Perhaps Arne would be able to comment at some point. The same question might also be asked of the BBC SO plug-in – I didn’t test that function there yet.
Incidentally, the ambient hiss level seems rather high with CSSS as well – much higher than when run natively through Kontakt.
Fred, what is the zoom level in your audio software?
I know that in studio one you can change the amplitudinal-zoom (for wont of a better term) so that things can look like they are clipping when they aren’t.
Sorry, I didn’t save the file to go back and check. It definitely was clipping though. Even in the Dorico mixer you can see the “Lead” fader where NP is returning the signal has completely peaked. As I had no compression and the Master fader in Dorico was zeroed, it looked the same.
When I opened the BBCSO Core MP3 Dan posted in the other thread along with my file, there was an obvious difference.
He said he didn’t create that file (bottom green one) but I’m guessing it had the default Dorico compression vs my blue one with the levels at 0 and no compression.
I think that’s because BBCSO is much more bottom-heavy than NP so the loudness produces a greater amplitude. This could be room for improvement in our software.
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I’m wondering if this is BBCSO-Core or NP4 that is doing this (I have no other software than Dorico, so cannot test in a DAW), but I have a passage of 8th notes, under measure-long slurs.
At the end of each slur, the sound very suddenly drops down and wants to cut.
It’s as if the violinists were stopping their bows at the end of each slur and having to start up again for the next slur.
Is there a way to fix this? or is it an inevitable artifact of BBCSO’s string samples?
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I would be curious to hear if anyone has a solution to this. I’ve found the same thing in EW HOOPUS. The sounds are way too agressive at shortening things that aren’t slurred. Normally, string and wind players still play very connected even if not slurred, since slurs for these instruments represent very specific instrument techniques, as opposed to on piano where the the slur/non-slur distinction is a little fuzzier and subject to interpretation. I wish NP would not be so quick to switch to the shorter articulations across the board, and if there’s a way to control this that I’m not aware of, I’d love to spend some time dialing in my preferences.
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If one loads the BBCSO violins directly in Dorico using the legato patch, the problem is much less pronouced? Also with the native NP sounds there is no such problem. Seems to me like NPPE is overdoing the phrasing…
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this is what I was saying a few days ago. However, the problem can be reduced or even eliminated simply by lengthening the notes in the Key Editor, at any rate with the BBC SO where I’ve been trying it. It’s one step less far than putting a tenuto marking or something. Of course the exact behaviour will depend on what choice of shorter articulations the library offers. I’ve found that purely in that respect, even with the current limitations of non-programmable boundaries, it’s possible to get a somewhat higher rate of the correct shorter articulation in a well-programmed map where there is a wide choice (in libraries like VSL) than NotePerfomer necessarily managed but I’m not underestimating the overall capabilities of these engines - I have been more impressed than I’d expected to be honest so far with my natural scepticism
It could be a bug in our software. Do you have a sound example so that I can be sure what you mean?