Novation Launchkey Mk4 37 MIDI Remote map is REALLY buggy! Can someone help? M.C-can you help?

[FunkyMunky]

@m.c

Wouldn’t it be more appropriate if simply Novation send me one?

Well, heck yes!

But: I don’t know how high is the likelihood of convincing them of the need for this. I’ve mentioned you to people over at Tech Support, and I’ve pointed them to various other threads that speak to this issue. And yet the issue still goes on. So that says to me:

A. They’re not seeing why they should spend the resources necessary to fix it, or

B. They don’t know how to fix it.

If you can see a way to get them involved and to do the right thing and send you a unit as a test bed, then please let me know. I’ll happily back you up.

And in the meantime, I’ll ask around at work: maybe there’s some people around who know some sales liasons over there. People like that are generally more receptive to requests like that. They’re used to understanding the connection between the happiness of individual customers on the ground and the continued success of their products.

I’ll ask.

[FunkyMunky]

@m.c

Anyway, here’s what we can do. I’ll buy one, and check how it’s behaving. If I notice similar things as the ones you describe, I’ll get into re-scripting the unit. Is it OK?

I honestly don’t want you to buy one with your own money. I’ve seen many of your posts, in many threads: you do good work for the community, and your time and efforts need to be appreciated and compensated for. I’m a firm believer that if I’m getting something, I should be willing to give something as well.

Give me a chance to ask around work first, at the very least, before you go spending money on one.

[m.c]

@FunkyMunky

convincing

I have no time for convincing no one, no worries I just ordered one, I’ll report once I have it here and test it. Perhaps it will be nice for the summer holidays, taking it away with a Mac instead of my Fantom

[FunkyMunky]

Aww man-you should cancel the order and let me get you one at my price.

[m.c]

Worry not! After losing last night with 40 points, I should really get to forget it somehow. Scripting is a nice option

[FunkyMunky]

Well, I’m very appreciative. And: I need you to let me know when you want to get another item. Tell me what the item is first so I can give you my price: it will be faaaar better than, probably, you’d imagine.

Again, I don’t know your location, but assuming that it’s not too far, it may be worth it to let me get you something and ship it to you.

So: just don’t forget that.

And-thanks again for being willing to help. And: I’m still asking around if we know of any sales people from Novation/Focusrite. They should absolutely be sending you one, if you’re gonna solve one of their problems.

[m.c]

@FunkyMunky

So: just don’t forget that.

I won’t, thank you. Currently I have no desire for another device, but, sure, you never know!

[m.c]

Hi, I received this device today, I’ve played with it for around 4-5 hours, so far there’s no issue at all. It properly stays connected, it refreshes when we change project (and activate it obviously), the pad modes (Plugin, Mixer, etc) are all working fine. The only thing that I’ve noticed, which may be confusing for some users, is the momentarily changes on the display, i.e. when we make a change, or choose another track, or whatever, it will properly show the change, however after some seconds it will revert to display “Cubase”. If I recall correctly from inspecting the script, this is by design though. The test was done on CB14 and Win11 by the way.

As a side note, I must say that Novation did an excellent job on this controllers series, I see except from the basic transport/mixer functionality, that they now offer send levels, eq, plugin params, extended functions for the transport (cursor, zoom, bpm, etc). Based on feedback I got for my own script by users, I think this script can cover the majority of user needs other there.

[FunkyMunky]

Well, isn’t that just typical . . .

Well, let me ask you some questions: How do you have it hooked up to your Mac (Hub or Direct)? Are you on Sonoma? Are you working with Cubase 14.0.10?

I have hooked up my LK both thru a hub and directly (just to double-check, I hooked it up directly just now): there’s absolutely no change in it’s flaky behavior, on my side.

Also it’s important to note: this is my second LK. Yes, after the first week of ownership I actually took the first unit back and replaced it with another unit-hoping against hope that perhaps the whole debacle was due, somehow, to a faulty LK. No such luck: it exhibited the exact same behavior as the first one.

So, I’m just stumped and dispirited: I was really hoping that you’d be able to address the problems, but now, with your results being what they are, what thoughts do you have on the matter? What could possibly be causing this-only on my side?

[m.c]

@FunkyMunky

How do you have it hooked up to your Mac

My test was done on Win11. I do have a Mac here though and I will surely test it on it as well.

@FunkyMunky

Are you working with Cubase 14.0.10?

Yes.

@FunkyMunky

What could possibly be causing this-only on my side?

I suspect something in the energy settings of your Mac. Unfortunately, I’m no Mac power user to properly guide you on this. I would suggest perhaps opening a generic threads, asking other Mac users about the power/energy settings they have, especially ones (I guess it’s the majority) with USB MIDI controllers attached.
I recall that another user, one with a Korg Keystage, on a Mac, complained that he too loses connectivity with a dedicated script I’ve written for it. I remember he mentioned that he puts his Mac in a “sleep” mode, to preserve battery. I really think that these settings are relevant to what you’re (both) experiencing.

Nevertheless I will give it a more thorough testing tomorrow, who knows, perhaps, I may notice something that can be of help, though I’m not optimistic.

[FunkyMunky]

Cool-I’m checking in on Power Settings. I’ve been a Win user for almost 20 years and then just over the last year went back to Mac, so I’m actually more familiar with the Windows Power Scheme side of things. I’m a complete novice to the world of Mac Power Management but, giben that this is a Macbook it would absolutely have to have some sort of power settings, and I will look into it.

I’ll report back after I’ve done some testing on the matter-I’ve been testing the LK with various projects since replying to you. I’ll continue

I’ll touch back in a while. Thank you.

[FunkyMunky]

@m.c

I recall that another user, one with a Korg Keystage, on a Mac, complained that he too loses connectivity with a dedicated script I’ve written for it. I remember he mentioned that he puts his Mac in a “sleep” mode, to preserve battery.

Question: around when do you remember this conversation happening? I’m just trying to narrow down what version of OS he might have been working with. As a for instance, I’m pretty sure that Intel Macs handled their Power Management very differently than do Silicon Macs (i.e: I’d bet they have many more bells and whistles attached to them-similar to what you’d see in the world of Windows) because Silicon Macs are sooooo much more efficient in the way they consume power. So: his OS/Mac Model is potentially relevant in this.

I’ve just re-set my HD Sleep Mode to “Never”, and now I’ll see if that changes anything,

[m.c]

@FunkyMunky

HD Sleep Mode

Not sure if this would help, but it’s always a good start. Perhaps you can find settings for the USB ports.

@FunkyMunky

around when do you remember this conversation happening?

Here’s a message almost at the start of our dialogue:

Help - trying to use Korg Keystage as a Midi Controller

So, performing live is a bit of a non starter till it’s reliable. I’ve tried a few things (including the ghost MIDI channel you suggested, but basically as soon as the Mac goes to sleep, the only way I can find to recover connection is to close Cubase and restart it. Unloading the song and reloading it doesn’t work. Shutting down Keystage and restarting it doesn’t work. MIDI reset doesn’t work. Also, not sure why but I seem to have two instances of your script running, one permanently disa…

[FunkyMunky]

Hi M.C.-been doing and ENORMOUS amount of testing and Project Rebuilding on this issue. I have gotten clearer still on some things and later I have a question for you.

So I’ve been testing what it will take to resurrect “despoiled” Projects (i.e.: projects that no longer respond to LK DAW Mode in any way-and many times, even having lost their ability to activate the Pad/Button LEDs). I have found that the only way to do that is: to rebuild the Project entirely.

So, my first methodology there was to:

A. Import a single track from a despoiled Project and bring it into a template known to work perfectly with the LK, and then,

B. Verify that-with the newly imported track-the LK still functions as it should, and then,

C. Immediately save the Project, close up Cubase, and then (and this seems to be key) dis- and then re-connect the LK,

D. Then re-open this Project to verify that it still works as it should (so far, they all have.)

After having some success with fully re-building one Project in that way (and taking a very long, tedious time to do it), I decided I’d go for it, and for the next despoiled Project, I’d just try bringing in all important tracks into a pristine template, and then doing all the other things that I described.

This seems to have worked reasonably well for two more Project rebuilds. But something is happening-in a significant number of times-that has given me pause, and made me wonder if this is the key to something, and something that perhaps should be checked out by another tester:

E. One of the ways in which I test my newly rebuilt Projects is-upon having verified that they are now responding properly to the LK DAW Mode, I then dis-and then re-connect the LK, to see if the DAW Mode connection is still maintained upon reconnection. In most situations-happily-this has been the case. But with some of my rebuilt Projects (some of the more complicated Projects) I have found that upon reconnection, either DAW Mode will remain connected, but my Pad/Button lights have disappeared, or vise versa: the lights are on, but DAW Mode is gone. In some of these instances going to the MIDI Remote Manager and dis- and re-engaging the map will bring it back on line, and some times doing that and then dis- and then re-connecting the LK will bring it back on line.

Nonetheless, I have learned that if this ever happens, the safest thing to do at that point is just to close Cubase, dis/reconnect the LK and then re-open the project: that seems to always bring it back on line. I have learned that saving over a Project after having had dis/reconnection issues like this puts the Project in danger of eventually being despoiled.

And here is where I will ask you something: in your testing of your new LK, have you tried some extensive dis/reconnection, to see whether or not your LKs connection is affected?

I have long wondered-actually from the first moment I tried this while at work-if the LK (or, perhaps I should say, the LKs scripting) was written to properly deal with being taken away from and then reconnected to the host. I need to do this-sometimes several times a day-because of the nature of my work being what it is.

So: I’m wondering if perhaps me having had to dis/reconnect my LK many times over the past month and a half has caused-and then only worsened-the already compromised state of a growing number of “despoiled” Projects?

And I was also wondering: if I am, in fact, on to something (that dis/reconnection of an LK can cause reliability issues related to its connection to MIDI Remote), and might that give you some important clues of where to look in the script.

Provided, of course, if you could duplicate the issues over on your side.

Sorry for so long a post: there was much to share, but I think it’s an important set of clues.

[FunkyMunky]

Oh, btw: I did as you suggested and set my Power Settings to HD Never Sleeping. Don’t know if it’s helped or not, because of all the testing that I’ve done, it’s hard to discern whether or not the successes are from that, or rebuilding the projects.

But, I wanted you to know that I did implement that.

[m.c]

@FunkyMunky

have you tried some extensive dis/reconnection, to see whether or not your LKs connection is affected?

Yes, I tried multiple disconnections. Upon reconnecting, I didn’t have an issue. HOWEVER, this was not the case for sure, in previous CB versions, there have been complaints on this by other users as well. I always advice against disconnecting MIDI Controllers while in a session, I remember that I had issues in the past, not just with remotes, even before the new API.

@FunkyMunky

if I am, in fact, on to something (that dis/reconnection of an LK can cause reliability issues related to its connection to MIDI Remote), and might that give you some important clues of where to look in the script

Unfortunately no. The scripts are not into a low level communication with the DAW, there’s always in the middle, the MR API, which is responsible for reactivating the script at whichever state it finds it proper to do.

[FunkyMunky]

Hmm. Ok, well, it was worth a shot.

So, given all that I’ve shared, do you have a “gut feeling” about what’s causing this on my side?

[FunkyMunky]

@m.c

I always advice against disconnecting MIDI Controllers while in a session, I remember that I had issues in the past, not just with remotes, even before the new API.

And, yes: this has always seemed to be a fraught decision to make, at least in my mind, as well. Witness the pause I took before actually doing it the first time. It always feels a little risky to me.

[m.c]

Sure. The disconnections upon active sessions. I know that in the past at least, MR was saving surfaces per project under certain circumstances. This seems to not be the case anymore, when at least we don’t have user defined actions per project. The issue was with ports altering names, and this was more obvious in Windows environments. I have almost zero experience with Macs…

[FunkyMunky]

@m.c

The issue was with ports altering names, and this was more obvious in Windows environments.

Yes-I had MASSIVE problems with that while still in the Windows Universe. On multiple occasions my PC renamed the ports that my ReMote 61 and my ReMote Zero were connected to. Caused many hours of pain each time, figuring out what had happened to my surfaces, why they weren’t showing up, only to figure out that the ports they were connected to were now “gone”. Huge headache.