I know what you mean, however, please notice that we have LIMITED access to EuCon adapter as this
is an Avid product. The adapter is not something we can change, we can only âreactâ on the Nuendo
software side. That said, of course we can look into a couple of issue and try to fix them.
Timo - we have had this back and forth for years (!!!) - each side blaming the other for the problems. The AVID developer, Eddie Jones, even said he had reached out to you.
Why not get on the phone or email and open a dialog ?
Incidentially (broken) Avid Control App users - a new version out today or tomorrow bringing even more value to Protools owners
Joris and Crispin very much nailed it.
It is a very complex topic. Serving existing customers and new customer alike, is a challenge, but it is our mission and duty to deal with it
in order to create a good product. However, just for sake of completeness, there are even 2 more âdimensionsâ that need to be added
to what Crispin and Joris wrote:
First, almost everything mentioned is correct, but need to be multiplied by multiple industries. Post-Production, Game Audio, Music, Virtual Reality, Broadcast - of course there are similar workflows across all these industries, but also very different ones. Nobody in game audio cares about Field Recorder import, nobody in Broadcast about Game Audio Connect and probably nobody in Post-Production about MIDI music sequencing features. And that is the same situation in terms of bug fixing. Priorities need to be set across all these workflows, industries, for existing and new users.
The second âdimensionâ is availability of resources. We have several dev teams and single specialists that are available at a certain point
in time to work on specific things. Sometimes, this is broken down into single weeks and days. That means, multiple projects need to be aligned to make sure that specific teams and individuals can work on fixes, improvements and new features, before being switched to another project.
Please donât get me wrong: all of this shouldnât look like an excuse for something. You have the right to get a well-working product from Steinberg.
I just wanted to add some perspective on why things are as they are and what challenges weâre facing.
That said, weâre truly making up our minds about everything that is reported, be it a bug or a feature wish.
And we will continue to strive for more efficiency and resources for Nuendo. The more successful the product is,
the more resources can be assigned to it.
That is THE MOST transparent and honest thing I have ever seen posted in public by a decision maker at any âmainstreamâ DAW developer.
Thank you, brave Timo! You must know the inevitable complaints forthcoming with this level of honesty.
Again, I have been closely involved as an âadvancedâ end user with computer audio development beginning with C-Lab Creator in 1988. I find Steinberg to be admirable in many ways as compared to their competitors. Nuendo is an amazing platform to work from and almost everything now being complained about would have been incredible magic from the future not long ago.
Thank you very much! I believe that itâs always better to be rather transparent on these things than
trying to hide them for no reason. This whole audio industry is based on creativity, engagement and a
meaningful âtogetherâ, probably more than any other industry. Iâve been working in audio production
long before I joined Steinberg, so did many other Steinberg colleagues. We know the good and the bad
and we try to work for the good under the given conditions. So I truly hope youâll find N11 very useful.
thanks for your answer. But this is the same thing we hear since years!!
Please, get together with Avid and get those things sorted! Both of you, Avid and Steinberg, use the Eucon compatibility as point of sale, but to be honest, this is ânearlyâ a deception against all the customers buing Steinberg DAWs and Avid controllers, in conviction that they get a 100% working professional solution. BUT ALL YOU GET IS EXPENSIVE GEAR AND SOFTWARE THAT DOESNâT WORK / MATCH IN A PROFESSIONAL WAY AT ALL!!!
Again, please get all these issues fixed (together with Avid!)!
What makes you think AVID would want to help out a competitor or get together? AVID wants you buying their DAW and Hardware, not someone elses DAW and their hardware.
Because their competitor has a userbase they can sell their hardware to.
I think whatâs going on behind the scenes is that Steinberg does not want/cannot afford to allocate their resources without AVID subsidising their efforts.
If we read Timoâs very open and honest words in this thread we understand that developing for the Nuendo project is a difficult, expensive and time consuming task. Again, if they improve EuCon integration, AVID makes money from the hardware (s1-6, dock) and Steinberg needs to spend the money on software development. I can understand why this feels unfair.
Also, you can imagine that the game audio userbase does not need this particular feature a lot, so resources allocated to EuCon cannot be used for improvements in this area.
As the market diversifies to larger degrees it must be more difficult to offer something to keep everyone happy. You can see this in the exact same way with ProTools. Musicians are getting more and more frustrated, because AVID try to keep their Hollywood customers happy while neglecting their needs like Melodyne integration (although I think itâs VERY desirable for post as wellâŚ)
Pro users have one thing in common. They will be okay with spending money on a 3rd party solution that helps their businesses, but they absolutely RELY on the DAW manufacturer to solve problems they cannot buy externally. Therefore bug fixing, GUI and workflow improvements, reliability and 3rd party improvements are crucial and much more important than new bells and whistles for pro users.
Consumers on the other hand want to spend a small amount of money and get all the shiny toys that were introduced last year by some plugin guru. (Steinberg has come up with a nice copy of Ozone and it seems an even nicer copy of Insight now, now they integrate part of the RX features)
So here we are: Itâs a difficult market, on the one side you have consumer prices, on the other side a part of your user base expects highly sophisticated niche products. Now why does that sound familiar to me?
Well there is also Nuage. Also doesnât really make sense for Nuendo/Steinberg to making it easier for people to buy Eucon, when theyâe already put so many resources, time, expertise into their own system of which they want to see as much of a return on as possible.
Agreed re: game audio but you have to remember that much of the dev work covers cubase as well - the Eucon driver is exactly the same and cubase currently has a much larger user base.
^^^ this exactly - and this wasnât delivered in cubase 11, in my opinion. And I suspect it wonât happen in N11 either.
Iâm not a eucon fan in itâs current state (in protools itâs not perfect either!) and would love to see SB/Yamaha develop something affordable for the Nuendo market. This has already been discussed in other threads ofcourse and I think it will be a while or never.
In the meantime, I really think we have to acknowledge the difficult position SB is in with regards to Eucon, strategically itâs a checkmate for Avid. I donât like it, hell nobody likes it, but have to accept it: IMHO I think itâs better to be patient and stop beating an almost dead horse and focus on other issues at hand that ARE solvable. With all kindness, if you really cannot work without eucon than you have an option: paying subscription fees to Avid and hope for the best. They should be reminded ever so often, but i see a lot of speculation that is not getting anyone anywhere.
All in all iâm excited about some of the new features (spectral view!!!) but also really hope some real issues (already stated above like DOP) will be fixed. Hereâs to hoping.
In my opinion, it is a win win for both companies. They already use it for years as a selling point. So for this case I bought a S1, because I donât like ProTools as DAW but love the Avid controllers for their built quality and âfeaturesâ. So there are not many more / comparable âprofessionalâ controllers in this price segment (S1 / S3) imho. So Nuendo with a bug free running S1 or S3 would be a great professional solution for me (and maybe lots of other users). But for me it feels a little bit like a trap. Trapping customers with this âperfect matchâ, but never working on solutions FOR YEARS! If it would work perfectly, Avid would sell more controllers to the SB userbase and maybe users from other DAWs would start using SB products due to the perfect Eucon integration.
But the actual situation, that both sell their products as compatible, allthough they are not FOR YEARS!, borders on fraud.