Nuendo on Win 10 for serious work?

Nuendo
#1

Hi everyone,

I am currently seriously considering switching from Mac to PC, since my main Computer is now 7 years old and I feel that slowly it is getting old enough to retire. Since I am really happy with the workstation form factor and Apple is doing everything to annoy the pro users, with their old and overpriced trash can I consider a pc running win 10.

Obviously a lot of questions arise and Inwould like to pick your brains on a couple of them.

  1. Do you think this is insane?
  2. I consider the 6900k cpu. Any thoughts?
  3. Do you have a bootable backup of the system drive? If so, how do you do it?
  4. Virus scanner yes/no/which one?
  5. Is it possible to use the win key as a modifier? I have a lot shortcuts that use all 4 modifiers on Mac. Can I somehow give the machine a more mac like keyboard shortcut feeling?
  6. What donyou use to read Mac Journaled HDD Volumes?
  7. Anything I really need to avoid?
  8. Is there someting like souce nexus (a virtual loopback audio device)
  9. Is there a LTC to MTC software available on PC?

I will not make the switch long before the new video engine is released, so at the moment I am just gathering information. Also I want to wait to see if Apple have something to offer during the WWDC.

#2

Hello Oliver…

This will not give you an exact answer you’re seeking, simply because I use Windows 7 pro/64bit.
I have hand built and configured my main PC 3 years ago and only had one single issue ever ; CPU fan has died.

However, you do have some valid question and I’ll try my best to answer :

\

  1. Do you think this is insane?
    >> nope :slight_smile:
  2. I consider the 6900k cpu. Any thoughts?
    >>Not familiar
  3. Do you have a bootable backup of the system drive? If so, how do you do it?
    >>Yes. Acronis True Image
  4. Virus scanner yes/no/which one?
    >>Yes. AVG, although I keep regular daily internet traffic on the mac mini
  5. Is it possible to use the win key as a modifier? I have a lot shortcuts that use all 4 modifiers on Mac. Can I somehow give the machine a more mac like keyboard shortcut feeling?
    >>Never tried, but given Nuendo’s customizable key commands…why not ?
  6. What donyou use to read Mac Journaled HDD Volumes?
    >> Mac drive (media four)
  7. Anything I really need to avoid?
    >>bloat, beta or free software, games
  8. Is there someting like souce nexus (a virtual loopback audio device)
    >> ??
  9. Is there a LTC to MTC software available on PC?
    >> at work ( also PC ) I use the MOTU usb interface with clockworks.

hope this helps…

#3

1. Do you think this is insane?

No, I think it’s sane

2. I consider the 6900k cpu. Any thoughts?

Intel makes great stuff, that’s probably a great CPU. AMD just officially released their Ryzen 7 chips today and the web is swamped in reviews. Scan audio has a review on the chips, and it appears from the testing we can see so far that the main limitation is very low latency combined with virtual instruments / voices. Now, if that doesn’t apply to you (it doesn’t apply to me for example) the Ryzen chips may actually be cheaper alternatives.

So I would consider giving it a week or two maybe to see what the audio guys who buy Ryzen say about it.

(just to be clear; when I do work on my PC I do post-audio and mostly dialog editing and mixing with some sound design. My current setup is way old, a 4core 2.6GHz Phenom processor with a Lynx PCI card. Now, for me, low latency wouldn’t be much of an issue. If I remember correctly Scan saw the Ryzen gaining back performance again when the buffer went up to about 192 or something like that. Well, mine is currently at 512, so I don’t really care. In addition to that some of the motherboards for Ryzen have legacy PCI slots on them. For me - excluding the option of a riser - that means that rather than selling the PCI audio card for almost no money I get to keep it; I’m avoiding the cost of buying a new 6+ channel DA converter which surely ends up being a $1k+ saving. So in total, Ryzen right now seems like a great option for people like me, and hopefully Intel will lower the price of the 6900k to match which is good for you!)

3. Do you have a bootable backup of the system drive? If so, how do you do it?
I’m actually a bit bad at it unfortunately, but I used Macrium Reflect to simply clone my drive. Worked like a charm.

4. Virus scanner yes/no/which one?
Yes. Stock Windows does the job.

5. Is it possible to use the win key as a modifier? I have a lot shortcuts that use all 4 modifiers on Mac. Can I somehow give the machine a more mac like keyboard shortcut feeling?
Not sure exactly what shortcuts you’re thinking of. Maybe if you explain we can figure out what the equivalent would be. But ‘yes’, Windows has shortcuts for the OS.

6. What donyou use to read Mac Journaled HDD Volumes?
I never use them. I typically end up using pre-formatted external USB SSDs for file interchange.

7. Anything I really need to avoid?
Stupid rumors.

8. Is there someting like souce nexus (a virtual loopback audio device)
Hmmm… I installed some virtual cable software that I can’t remember the name of, and I couldn’t really get it to work with Nuendo unfortunately. But stuff exists I think. If I end up upgrading my computer I’ll most certainly have to revisit it… if I remember the name I’ll let you know…

#4

As a mac user I’ve thought about this too lately. Apple keeps hinting that there’s more to come in the pro area ( https://9to5mac.com/2017/02/28/apple-annual-shareholders-meeting/ ) but it is getting fully ridiculous.

Anyway, following your questions with interest thanks.

#5

Make it easy on yourself and purchase a DAW computer from a trusted company.
The know all the do’s and don’ts and it will save you days of research, frustration and in the end … a ;ot of money.
We have 6 machines running from ADK, and never has any serious problem.

Fredo

#6

Thanks everyone for your answers, I have the feeling that it’s a hot/trending topic on the internet now.
It’s reassuring to read that some of you get your work done on an everyday basis with PCs.

@MattiasNYC
4. Regarding the modifier key: I was thinking about Nuendo. Is it possible to use the Windows key as a modifier in Nuendo?
6. Obviously all my sessions are on Mac formatted disks. I will keep my cheese grater as a backup machine, so I might just copy things over the network…

@umfufu
The question is how much Tim Cooks and my definition of a pro audio workstation have in common…I doubt that Apple will go back to expandable, pcie, room for internal hdds, exchangeable ram etc.

@fredo
I have the feeling that over here in Germany the trusted daw computer builders have disappeared over the massive success that Apple has had for a couple of years. Is ADK in Belgium and if so, where are they?
They might be closer to my hometown than da-x.de who are the only pro audio computer suppliers I can find. Berlin is not exactly around the corner and I won’t be able to just grab my machine and take it to their workshop. Ideally I would find someone who has all the knowledge in the Cologne area. The problem is that a lot of people really have a strong Mac/Avid background…

#7

Oliver,

ADK is a US based company.
https://www.adkproaudio.com/adk-extreme-ws-daw
There’s really nothing to it. We have 6 ADK machines in use.
And they come with lifetime support.

Closer to you is XI-MACHINES GmbH from my good friend Leon Herbers. (Former Nuendo Product Manager)
http://xi-machines.com/de/

Both are highly recommended, and I am convinced that you will never have to “bring the machine to their workshop”.

Good luck!
Fredo

#8

So you ordered your pcs from the US?
Wow.

#9

Yeah, no big deal. Piece of cake.

Fredo

#10

Hi, …
We’ve been working with Windows PCs since “Nuendo 1.5 day one” and run through most of the WinVersions over the years.
Infamous ones like Win 95, better ones like in 98SE and workhorses like XP, a.s.f.
Win 7, 8.1 and finally 10.1 have not shown any relevant problems and 10.1 64bit is doing just fine on our machines, now.
The CPU you are aiming for is a monster. My current CPU, a i7 3930K, is really not the latest model, but still does great against all tasks thrown at it. Now, it costs only 220 Euro and never came to its edges with audio productions.
I have no virus thingy on the main machine. On other DAWs Win virus protection software has not proved to produce much of a problem.
As a standard we use Rosendahl timecode interfaces, just as well as AD/DA RME devices for audio
… virtually trouble-free… switch it on/put it in and forget about it.
I keep use of internet and irrelevant stuff off the studio comps when ever possible.
New plugs and gadgets I try on secondary systems first which has safed and filtered out lots of trouble .
Then, … getting a proper machine is essential. If you are not into PC hardware, as already mentioned, get one from a trusted dealer. Look after enough PCIe slots and USB on back and front, which should not be a problem with newer MoBos. Have a nice SSD as systems drive and keep projects on a separat ssd/hdd ( I also keep Video stuff on a physical third one ).
All in all, you won’t come around extensive googeling, anyway. :wink:

Cheers, Big K

#11

Another reassuring post, thanks Big K.
I actually have good memories of Nuendo on XP but that’s a decade ago.
It’s really good to hear it’s all good and solid for so many users.
It’s good to have an option. I really begin to feel like my mac days are over at least in the studio.

#12

Hey, Oliver!
Looks like just about everything else has been covered above, just wanted to say I went direct to Win10 from Mac, and never regretted it. Definitely have your computer supplied by a specialised company, they will also know what ballast to shed from the system (there is quite some of that, with Win10…) or at least get a Z-series workstation from HP - I have one of those and it works brilliant, Steiny reccomends them too. There were some issues in the beginning with missing DLL-files, but that was quickly sorted out with the help of Steinberg support.

#13

+1 to all that has been said in previous posts. As long as you get the machine from a reputable source similar to that recommended by Fredo or Heiner, you’ll have no issues (the ADK machines, for example, are fully customizable so you can match the specifications to your needs). IMO ‘serious’ doesn’t come into the equation in the choice between Mac and PC. It’s just a question of personal preference.

#14

I don’t think the windows key can be used that way. I think it’s limited by the OS to the OS only.

#15

That is correct.

#16

There are applications that can swap the keys on Windows keyboards to emulate the command key on Mac. It’s been years since I’ve used one but I know they’re out there.

#17

Excellent advice. I have been building my own PCs for audio use since I left Notator/Atari many years ago. So much of the bad rep PCs got for DAWs was either beginners building bad machines with poorly considered components or off-the-shelf PCs from Dell/HP/Gateway that were built for running Word/Excel and were horrid DAWs.

I’ve known Scott (ADK owner) for about 18 years now and that is a solid company. Still build my own, but Scott and company know their stuff. If you spend what you would have spent on a trashcan Mac, you will wish you had moved over sooner. “It just works” has moved to a different location these days. I will admit, thought, to still preferring Mac laptops for non-music tasks. But inside an app like Nuendo, OS makes no real difference there in 2017. It’s cost/power/stability that makes the difference and advantage there has migrated to PC, IMO. It may move back to Mac again at some point, but not for now, I think.

#18

While browsing the web I came across steller online, another DAW manufacturer. Has anyone here ever ordered either from da-x or steller online?

#19

no but I have bought from Cyberpowerpc.com and you can choose a case and build a PC very easily from their menu system , this is a much better value than PCs designed for audio music production as i find they are overpriced.

customer service is very good.

I run cubase 9 on windows 10 (per my specs ) and i also have nuendo 5 on my slave PC.

to confirm a few of your questions, the win 10 virus software is free and seems to work fine in the background.

i lock MTC to my slave using the stock sync settings and i run video on the slave, nuendo 5. It works well i can scrub, start stop and it locks with very little slip.

i run an external hard drive with automatic back up feature ( i think it’s a western digital ) …this clones my project drive in real time. no issues.


nsider the 6900k cpu. Any thoughts?
3. Do you have a bootable backup of the system drive? If so, how do you do it?
4. Virus scanner yes/no/which one?
5. Is it possible to use the win key as a modifier? I have a lot shortcuts that use all 4 modifiers on Mac. Can I somehow give the machine a more mac like keyboard shortcut feeling?
6. What donyou use to read Mac Journaled HDD Volumes?
7. Anything I really need to avoid?
8. Is there someting like souce nexus (a virtual loopback audio device)
9. Is there a LTC to MTC software available on PC?

I will not make the switch long before the new video engine is released, so at the moment I am just gathering information. Also I want to wait to see if Apple have something to offer during the WWDC.

#20

Thanks for your input, seems like another happy pc user.
Steller online is offering service sessions over the net via a vnc connection. Although I hope this does not apply to me, I kind of like the option to have someone around I can talk to when things suddenly go wrong.
On OS X I have always been able to help myself during the last 7 years with the cheese grater.
If their pcs are well built and after sales service is good, I think a moderate fee paid on top of the machine is not such a bad thing but it’s good to hear self builds are actually working well these days.