Odd Note Input Action

Working on a Baroque transcription that has a regularly recurring rhythm: 4/4 time, fourth-beat quarter note, tied to dotted eighth followed by an eighth note. When I input the final eighth note, the tie and dotted note disappear. Here is a video of the actions using the mouse to input the notes so that you can see what I am doing. Dropbox

It does not matter what method I use to input the notes. I can try again with the tie, dotted note, etc, but the same thing happens. After this happens, I can input other notes and it acts normally. The only way I could fix it was to input all the notes and then go back and add the ties.

This does not seem like a notation setting.

Unless Iā€™m misunderstanding you utterly, I have not been able to replicate the trouble youā€™re encountering.

Using the one of the ā€œnormalā€ rhythmic entry methods (OPT/ALT +SHIFT + ā†’) before typing ā€œBā€ (for the B4s) I experience:

Iā€™m not following you either. This rhythm doesnā€™t make sense to me.

I have watched the video and tried to reproduce the actions I see, but there must be something else you did that doesnā€™t show in the video. I think youā€™ll have to detail the exact actions youā€™re taking. Start with the previous quarter on beat 3, so we can get oriented.

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Thank you for the input. I have figured the problem out, but have a question at the endā€¦

First, there is a typo in my description, but it doesnā€™t change the outcomeā€¦ It should read 4/4 time, fourth-beat quarter note, tied to dotted eighth followed by a sixteenth note.

The problem I have is a difference between Dorico and Finale. So, here are the steps I take:

  1. Enter beat three quarter
  2. Enter beat four quarter (This is where I begin to make the mistakes)
  3. Hit ā€œTā€ to tie
  4. Enter beat one eighth note
    The next step is where I encounter the problem, which is now different than I explained above, and I cannot recreate what I did before, but it has the same outcome. I know that it is how I am inputting.
  5. as soon as I enter this note, the left panel icon switches from ā€œtieā€ to ā€œdotted-note.ā€
  6. hit ā€œdotted noteā€ and the eighth note goes away.
    I realize now that it is because of the way that I am entering the rhythms, and expecting it to act. Normally I input notes with a stand-alone numpad and a MIDI keyboard and would not use the navigation arrows - this method is how I first encountered the problem. If I could enter all rhythms without moving my hands, it would speed up note entry in a situation like this. QUESTION: Is there a way to do that without taking my hands away from the numpad and MIDI device?

I also realize that this may just be the Dorico way and I will need to retrain my thinking and reflexesā€¦ and I will need to use the superior copy functions that Dorico provides.

The quickest way to enter this is a double-dotted quarter note!

Another way: After the quarter on beat 4,
T for tie, 5. (or 55 quickly) for dotted eighth.

Another: Enter a half note on beat 4, set the grid to a 16th and either:

  • Shorten the half note with ā‡§āŒ„ā†, or just
  • Back up a 16th with left arrow

ā€¦ and youā€™re ready to enter the 16th note. The latter overwrites the end of the half note.

For reference (and more discussion and argument), this same issue was brought up last week and again yesterday.

I suspected as much, though as you say that wonā€™t bear on the trouble.

The ā€œtwistā€ in adjusting to Dorico is that it doesnā€™t ā€œthinkā€ of the separate note symbols in a tie chain as being distinct things that then get tied together. Think piano roll in a DAW: itā€™s just one note starting and continuing, with the ties and additional note symbols written to appear clearly in the meter.

So when one enters the b. 4 quarter note then extends/prolongs it (with the key command I listed above), Dorico automatically takes care of the tie across the barline, etc.

Thank you for these descriptions. They confirm what I figured out but couldnā€™t put words around. It will take a bit of experimenting to figure out the way that is most logical for my fingers. And at least 1000 mistakes before it becomes habit!

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Iā€™m still counting mine, Michael. :smile:

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The ā€œtieā€ and ā€œuntieā€ actions donā€™t literally involve ties in this case. In a typical MIDI sequencer piano roll, these are represented as entirely different tools - a scissors tool and a glue tool. The scissors tool is for slicing a note apart so that it becomes two notes instead of one, and the glue tool is for gluing two adjacent and abutting notes together.

Doricoā€™s ā€œtieā€ tool is the same as a DAW piano roll ā€œglueā€ tool. Doricoā€™s ā€œuntieā€ tool is the same as a DAW piano roll ā€œscissorsā€ tool.

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Yes. One difference: With the caret in Dorico you can also tie (glue) to the next note you enter.