Optimized plugin control via Midi Remote devices

[Steve_Day]

Before I start, please hit the blue vote button in the top left corner if you have more than 8 encoders

Hello Steinberg devs,
My feature request is two features that go hand-in-hand:

1. To replace “VST Quick Controls” at the top of the plugin window with any encoders that we established in the Midi Remote section. This would remove the 8-parameter limitation by default since we would be treating all encoders as VST Quick Controls instead of reserving just 8, allowing us for the first time, to use all of our encoders to control the focused plugin window.

2. To establish a universal plugin window where opened plugins become the focus. This creates an easy way to manage a singular focus window without plugins littering the screen when opened. If the user wants multiple plugins open at the same time, they can, but the default function would be a single focused plugin window, much like Pro Tools or Studio One.
   This also gives way to more new features by default, such as being able to map a hotkey to toggle seamlessly through the loaded plugins on the track to determine which one is now in focus.
   One window → a toggle to cycle through which plugin is the focus of that window.

To clarify to those reading, the area circled in red would be replaced with a simpler layout that would only show the plugin parameter selected, the encoder you just turned, and a “map” widget to link the two. It would update, depending on which knob you turned or which plugin parameter you selected, rather than showing you a list of 8 knobs that you can’t page through or add more of:

I understand Quick Controls to be rather limited, so perhaps we get rid of Quick Controls as it currently exists and replace it with the above-described. I think that the universal plugin window would be required first to facilitate a robust mapping system.

[Steve_Day]

Adding a “Window Selection” to the focus modes here would also help to resolve the issue that made me request this feature originally. Because this plugin mapping works perfectly…up to the point that you try and put a plugin in a different insert slot, or you try to load the mono version of the plugin instead of the stereo version (and then all the maps are missing since it’s looking at the specific insert, or track, not the window itself):

[m.c]

Hi, I think I understand the reasonable request here and I do have a suggestion that may work for you.

The mechanism of the inserts viewer of the MIDI Remote is based on the concept of following the selected slot of the selected track (when we’re talking about using the mapping assistant, as you do). At the same time, since each VST can have more than 8 parameters, it introduces the concept of banks of parameters.

So, if we try to setup our controller to comply with these two concepts, we need:

• 8 (or more, depends on your controller) knobs/faders to control each bank of parameters of the insert of the selected slot of the selected track.
• 2 buttons for browsing through the banks of these parameters (plus 1 for resetting to the first bank optionally)
• 2 buttons for browsing through the slots (plus 1 for resetting the focus to the first slot).
• 1 button (optionally again) to open/close the insert of the selected slot.

This would look something like this:

Now, if we go to Preferences→Project & MixConsole and enable Sync Selection in Project Window and MixConsole what we achieve is that when we change track (either in the Project or Mixer window) the MIDI Remote will automatically update to show the parameters of whichever insert we have in a slot of the new selected track. At the same time, if we open another insert slot, it will again update to control this new one. Note that the QCs display will update too.

[Steve_Day]

Hey m.c,
The issue with that is the mappings only work if you load the plugin on the same insert slot on every track. If you map the plugin when it’s on insert 2, for example, then you try and load that plugin later on insert 3, the mappings are gone.

Also, it has to be the same mono or stereo version on every track, or else the mapping doesn’t translate, even if they are all on insert slot 2.

That brought me to VST Quick Controls - they do auto-map and are not dependent on the insert slots…but there are only 8 of them! Not gonna cut it!

[m.c]

@Steve_Day

The issue with that is the mappings only work if you load the plugin on the same insert slot on every track.

Hi, not sure I understand the issue.

The mapping has to be done using the native elements of the Inserts Viewer as shown here:

I’m using this approach all the time, so maybe you mean something else or you’re mapping parameters differently.

[Steve_Day]

The plugin parameters are not listed in the Functions Browser window, which is another issue.
It was only by accident that I found that you have to click the plugin parameter, turn the encoder, and then press the “Apply Mapping” button:

In the mapping assistant in my screenshot there, circled in orange are the areas that cannot be chosen from the Functions Browser- that only showed up by touching the plugin parameter.
The part circled in red is where I set the focus mode to be the selected track (it defaults to “fixed”).

Whereas the way you’re doing it, you’re using generic parameters listed in the Functions Browser. And, you only have 8 of them before you have to hit the page button, correct?
The way I’m doing it, I have access to the entire SSL channel strip on one page without touching a page button. And it works this way when you have the SSL on every track on the same insert. But it doesn’t work this way when you want to use the SSL on insert 3 instead, since the mapping is dependent on insert 2.

Furthermore, I can’t have more than one plugin mapping for insert slot 2 without it overwriting the previous mapping. Meaning, if I map the SSL when it was in insert slot 2, then I remove the SSL and load a different plugin in insert slot 2 and map that one…then go back to the SSL…my mappings have been overwritten since it’s not mapping the actual plugin - it’s mapping the insert, which I had accidentally overwritten.
I was used to being in Studio One where this is not the case. It remembers every plugin mapping, even when you remove it and load it in a different insert later. It also doesn’t care whether it’s mono or stereo - it will use the same mapping so I don’t have to map every plugin twice - one for the mono version and one for the stereo version.

So doing it the way I’m doing it would work if I only used mono or stereo versions of the plugin, on every track, in the same insert slot on every track.

By the looks of it, doing it the suggested way means I only have 8 generic parameters to work with and then I have to hit page buttons.

Therefore, my request is to solve this problem by not mapping a knob to an insert slot, but rather, map it to the focused plugin window.
Then, no matter which insert slot the plugin is loaded, and hopefully no matter whether it’s a mono or stereo version (since the parameters are identical once inside the plugin), the plugin will be in focus and it will retain all of the mappings, and will avoid the 8 parameter per page limitation.

[m.c]

@Steve_Day

you only have 8 of them before you have to hit the page button

Yes. I’ve arranged my plugins so that I can have the parameters sorted by their biggest impact to my taste. Now, this can be tedious, but I only have less than a dozen of plugins I tend to use the most, so in the end it was ok.

Long story short, I’m using the remote editor for reordering the parameters, so that my first 2 banks contain the crucial ones for me. And honestly, I usually use up to 4 of them.

Anyway, as I’ve said in my first reply, I do get what you’re after

[Steve_Day]

I’m trying to ask for a solution that many others have been asking for for a long time - I’m just wording it a bit differently to hopefully get the devs on board.

Bottom line: We need access to more than 8 parameters at once, and the architecture behind plugin mapping needs a complete overhaul. Steinberg beat Presonus in the way they did the MIDI remote editor vs Presonus’ laborious way of creating MIDI remotes, but Presonus is beating Steinberg badly in how robust the plugin mapping is from plugin to plugin, insert to insert, track to track.

Where Steinberg is using only 8 Quick Controls, Presonus uses the entire remote as Quick Controls.

This feature request is to remedy that issue, for those of us with a lot more than 8 encoders.

I think that Steinberg is almost there, based on what I’m seeing with the mapping assistant and the ability to map encoders to plugin parameters directly.
They are using “mapping pages” as presets for encoder mappings, but that requires user intervention to switch through those presets, and it requires a new mapping page for every single plugin that needs more than 8 encoders at a time (for 8 or less, VST Quick Controls already do what I’m requesting). That might turn into a hundred mapping pages, making it very difficult to cycle through manually, especially when trying to switch tracks and the mapping change is required before the remote will work again.

[m.c]

@Steve_Day

We need access to more than 8 parameters at once

I know you’re talking about the “normal” QCs and FQCs, but as a side note, if we use then Instrument and/or Inserts Quick Controls the way I described earlier, we can set our banks size of parameters to much larger than 8, by providing this number in their setup section:

[Steve_Day]

That puts me a bit closer, but once I assign “parameter 1” to knob 1, for example, how do I map it per plugin? I want knob 1 to be a different parameter, but just for this one plugin. Other plugins, parameter 1 might be knob 3.

How do I move them around on a per-plugin basis? If I can’t, it’s sort of useless for me, to be honest, because the SSL needs to be mapped a very specific way.

It feels like “parameter 1” is whatever the plugin manufacturer decided for that plugin - but we’re blindly mapping parameter 1 to knob 1, not knowing what parameter 1 will be on this plugin vs that plugin. A lot of times, they make the first 8 parameters things I never want to touch (minor parameters that get rarely used).

[mlib]

You’re looking for the “Remote Control Editor”.
It looks a bit dated but it does work well.

Remote Control Editor

[Steve_Day]

I want to say thank you, mlib, because since you told me that, I’m almost good to go - between the combination of the MIDI remote editor and then that remote control editor, I was able to map all 16 encoders at once without having to page!!

Even better, it remembers the plugin mappings for every plugin! So I don’t have to create a preset and load it. This is great!!

I will have to update my feature request to say something like, “Combine the control editor and the MIDI remote editor into one interface,” where using the remote control editor more closely resembles my controller. I will admit that it’can be a bit difficult at times to map certain knobs, when my layout is 4x4 and the remote editor layout is 8x8. If I change the layout in the remote editor to be only 4 per row (like parameters 1-4 on row 1), it skips 5-8 altogether and will start with parameter 9 on row 2. Therefore, I had to keep it as 8 parameters per row. But it works.

[mlib]

You’re most welcome! I’m glad you got everything working for you. Setting every plugin up is tedious work but luckily, you only have to do it once (and then again as you came up with a better layout strategy!).
Pro tip: All VST mappings are saved as XML files and located in
\Users\[UserName]\Documents\VST XMLs (windows). If you’re XML literate it might be an idea to edit the files directly in some cases.

[ggmanestraki]

@Steve_Day

I will have to update my feature request to say something like, “Combine the control editor and the MIDI remote editor into one interface,”

This is what I’m thinking too. I don’t know how feasible this is, but imagine if we had the ability to “design” a RCE template from scratch, defining the type of control (pot, endless pot, encoder, push encoder, fader, crossfader, x/y, joystick, etc etc) and have relevant parameters prefer relevant controls.

For example, imagine that we have a control defined as a button, latch. If a parameter has only two states, say an On/Off switch, or a Punch button, or anything of the sort, the parameter would prefer to go to the first control of this kind (the latch button), and avoid being assigned to any other controls defined as pots, faders, encoders etc. I think this would greatly speed up the process of setting up RCEs for use with the MIDI Remote.

But as I said, I don’t know how feasible this is, if plug-ins “know” that this parameter is a latch button, this is a three-way switch, this is a 5 position rotary switch, this is a fader, this is a potentiometer, or if it’s all just numbers from 0 to 1 for them.

[m.c]

Yes, this would be great!

In fact, i had a post (I know you saw it already) for somehow giving us the additional info needed to do such things (since I don’t think this could be easily automated):

mParameterBankZone additional property

Hi, I think it would make sense to add something like this: ourpage.mHostAccess.mTrackSelection.mMixerChannel.mInstrumentPluginSlot.mParameterBankZone.includeOnlyKnobs, or faders or buttons. I’m not sure if fader type is exposed, however, button is certainly exposed. This way we could map more efficiently our controllers. Another way would be to add a .typeOf as follows: var param=paramZone.makeParameterValue() var typeOf=param.typeOf(), for e.g. “knob”,“fader”,“button”.

Lately, however, I went for another approach, and it’s doing great here:

Since my controllers are of type 8 knobs/8 faders/8 buttons, I setup my RCE grid so that the VST parameters appear as follows:

1-8: knobs,
9-16: faders,
17-24: step buttons,
25-32: on/off buttons (for this last group I’m using a “shift” before hitting the button)

It is tedious, but totally worth the effort, the way I see it

[ggmanestraki]

@m.c

1-8: knobs,
9-16: faders,
17-24: step buttons,
25-32: on/off buttons (for this last group I’m using a “shift” before hitting the button)

That’s exactly what I’ve done and it really works fine, but still, laziness wispers to me that even greater abstraction could be worth pursuing.

[m.c]

@ggmanestraki

laziness

I didn’t want to write this

[jake_long84]

I think the issue with the mapping is the lack of learn button which without reading the whole thread is kind of what’s being discussed here right? I’d love to be able to at any time, learn->reach out and touch, next…. This is how the MP Midi works essentially; have you seen it? It’s so wicked.

CC defined would stay like that until you changed it on the same plugin. I thought for a while there that the midi devices would do this for me but alas, turns out no: still haven’t found a way of either on the fly learn button or having more than one AI knob.

Additionally, I’ve done something similar and made the macro1, macro2,macro3 kind of thing and they’re assigned all over the place and when i find something new I just overwrite the macro

[mlib]

@jake_long84

I think the issue with the mapping is the lack of learn button which without reading the whole thread is kind of what’s being discussed here right?

Upper right corner (6). Press L for learn.

[jake_long84]

ooh yeah sure, love the controller editor, but it needs to be a part of the main UI or a button on every plugin/window etc. the controller editor is huge, you can’t be leaving it open and dragging it across the shop everywhere you go though. Like Kilohearts, NI or HY do. see below, this is as hard as it needs to be, drag move icon onto stuff and go:

Regards,

Jake Long