Dorico 5.1 is out, but I still have not managed to get my mordents to playback. When can I expect ornament playback to be introduced. I would wish for the following features:
1: Default playback styles for most standard ornaments.
2: Natural randomization of the timings and executions of the oramaments, to mimic realistic performances. I suggest a means to control the degree to which the randomization occurs, such as specifying a value between 0-100. Maybe also a means to control the execution speed and offset relative to the down beat.
3: Custom changes/specifications of the playback, or create custom styles. I would like to associate with each ornament a sequence of notes which (different from default styles) is suitably triggered upon each ornament.
4: I would like to be able right click on the ornament and choose for each note which playback style is used, so that not each time an ornament is encountered, the same style is used. This would allow me to create many custom variations (with possibly very small differences), apply these variations at my desire, and thus obtain a rich natural playback.
These features are highly relevant to my music and I hope to see it implemented soon. Could you provide a tentative timeline and let me know if these features are at all in the interest of the Dorico developing team? In particular, for each numbered point, could you tell me whether it will be implemented?
@Isak_Stomberg nice though it is to have such a dream, I donāt believe the developers have any policy of specifying timelines in this forum for any work. It depends on so many factors.
I do lots of baroque and it would be great. but your list is hugely demanding of time and resources for an aspect that is to a certain extent fairly rare (relatively speaking) and if you read the forum you know there are ways to achieve such playback already, albeit it with some work. I have no right to speak for Steinberg but Iād say youāll get a similar answer. Iām sure they have already noted this type of request from many users, as it keeps coming up.
Thank you Andro for your reply. Actually, I am new since today in the forum as I just changed from Sibelius to Dorico. Could you point me to somewhere where it is described how to accomplish (at least parts) of what I suggested?
Iām not sure myself if thereās any point in programming playback for ornaments into Dorico because, as so many have pointed out, playing practice varies considerably. Basically with any symbol or articulation where you need to have control of the playback, you can simply create an extra staff below, Use the right-click context menu and under staff ācreate staff belowā. If itās a section player then instead you need to select āchange divisiā and add a second division (itās all in the manual if youāre not yet familiar with all this).
You then use this lower staff to write out in longhand exactly how the mordent should be played. After that, you can delete this staff ā the playback is retained. You should then disable playback in the visible score staff. Itās true that this takes a little longer than pre-programmed playback for mordents but discussions on this lead me to the conclusion that if this were done, there would still be those who didnāt like the way it was implemented and to provide a wide range of options would surely be a not insignificant programming challenge. Perhaps the team will prove me wrong and come up with the goods. But in the meantimeā¦
Any news on the playback of ornaments? We are living in the year 2024 in Feb. The Version of Dorico is 5.1.21. If you have complete works/ compositions you have to renew them all when the job is done and the playbacks are workingā¦
Not if you write out the ornamentsā notes in a hidden staff and suppress playback on the note with the written ornament. Then you have a custom ornament to your liking that is version proof.
Hey @MarkusBHZ, sorry to revive this dead post, but I just read your question. Havenāt looked into these forums for years.
Iāll respond to the best of my memory just in case someone will need this info later.
The process via Vienna Instruments Pro is straightforward: you create a custom symbol to play back a certain articulation via keyswitch or cc or anything. In Vienna Instruments Pro, you then assign a specific playback for that articulation. The good thing about VIP is that itās really powerful. You could write arpeggios that would get transposed automatically. So for example you can create mordents for whole-tone and half-tones, create two different custom mordent symbols for these, and even give them a custom shortcut in Dorico, such as āmwtā (for mordent whole tone).
Still trying to make ornaments via playback techniques with no success.
I went through the tutorial, nothing worked.
Read about CC in MIDI, but could not know how or make pitch change, even in a simple mechanical form.
Maybe it is possible to make ātweaksā like writing down notes and make them too small to be āvisibleā, or create a parallel staff with the actual rendering making the written ones grayed and silent, but that creates other issuesā¦
Just to mention, I use both Note Performer and Dorico in their latest versions ā¦ I cannot understand why it is still too complicated to implement this feature, which should be independent in some degree from the VST used.
Itās not that it is ātoo complicatedā to implement playback of ornaments. It is simply that we have not done it yet. Itās very difficult to prioritise our limited development time. We cannot address all user requests in every version. I agree that this is important, and we do hope to address it soon.
The intent was to help to comment as an end user and not to write a āclient complaintā. The work Dorico team has done in spite of limited development time is respectable, and I apologize if I used any inappropriate expression or expressed the question inappropriately.
I tried to use the tutorial, believing that it would be feasible at a user level, and maybe that it is why it was not implemented yet, which is also an interesting possibility.
Thereās no need to apologise ā Iām sorry if my response came across as annoyed. It was not intended to! We know this is a feature that many users are waiting for, and we will try to work on it soon.
That tutorial relates to Dorico 2. Much has changed between that and Dorico 6(!) not least where things are found.
However, the basic steps remain the same: A Playing Technique (written notation) is connected to a Playback Technique and a Playback Technique can be used in an Expression Map to trigger a feature of a VST to make a special sound.
But that has very little to do with ornament playback.
The easiest way to do this (today) is to add a extra stave, notate your ornament (mordent, turn etc) there, and then hide that extra staveā¦
Thank you,
Yes, I acknowledge the differences between Dorico 2 and 6, but supposed there was some common core feature, since I did not find a later tutorial online.
There is of course the reference manual of Dorico 6.
Thanks again for the advice, but : āThe instrument is held by a section player. You can only add staves to instruments held by a single playerā, says the popup window.
I will dig in the manual, before asking in the forum. If I find the solution, I will post it here gladly.
As I certainly have posted in the past, personally I donāt feel Ornament Playback as a priority. I prefer implementing them respecting the stile, tempo and composer.
Iām adding a minimal example for a prall trill, which is different from an up mordentā¦ Prall.dorico (512.9 KB)
And there are quite a lot of variance with these! I have a couple of good reference books from the 1890s: Russellās Embellishments of Music and Dannreutherās Musical Ornamentation. (My copy is a 1960 reprint with both Part I and II.)
In any case, ornament playback seems pretty complicated to me, as there will be a need to have some way to accommodate all sorts of styles and variations.
Exactly Fred! Still from CPEBachās Versuch Ć¼ber die wahre Art das Clavier zu spielen you can see how the same embellishment can be differently playedā¦ (Btw, obviously in my example the speed should be bigger )
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