Padding below text

This is an odd one, and could be related to the slew of other font problems I’m having today after installing Dorico on a new machine.

In this screenshot, the text should be centered, but there’s apparently some padding that prevents it.

Any suggestions? File attached. Font is Minion Pro Regular. Italic doesn’t have that padding. I’ve never seen this before…

Oh, and… I know that’s not the right melody. :wink:
Dorico template.zip (1.32 MB)

You mean centered over the first eighth-note D (if this is treble clef), right?

Sorry, I can see my initial post was totally unclear. I meant the title is not vertically centered.

I don’t know whether this is helpful, but I get exactly the same result as your screenshot on my Mac (and I note that the italicised version of Minion Pro is affected too - it’s just less noticeable when the text is smaller). I also get exactly the same result in Dorico 2.2.20, with both your file and a new file and a couple of my existing projects that use Minion Pro.

I guess this indicates that either there’s always been something dodgy about Minion’s vertical spacing, but neither of us has been looking out for it, or Adobe have changed something recently (bearing in mind that Creative Cloud fonts can presumably be fiddled with remotely at any time by Adobe).

Hmm… interesting. I mean, doesn’t that look wrong to you?? It’s just not centered in the frame.

I’ve been using Minion Pro for years, but I just switched from the “free” version to the legit Adobe version. Huh.

It definitely looks wrong to me. I just can’t figure out whether it’s always been wrong (Minion + Dorico) because I don’t have a PDF to hand to compare with what Dorico’s displaying…

I think Dorico isn’t correctly positioning any of Adobe’s “Pro” fonts. If I change the font to Adobe Garamond Pro, Jenson Pro, Acumin Pro, etc., the vertical positioning of Dan’s title stays the same. If I change it to the regular non-Pro version of Minion (or Kepler, or …) then it moves down to what appears to be a centered position.

I’m afraid I’d noticed this already many years ago in Finale, long before I switched to Dorico. I started replacing Stempel Garamond in my existing files with Minion Pro and I immediately noticed that MP ‘sat higher’ than SG, meaning that my staff names were all slightly too high. In addition, MP has a considerably larger baseline to baseline distance, meaning that all my multi-line text blocks were too spread out, vertically, and needed reformatting. Interesting what Fred wrote about the Pro vs. the non-Pro fonts, but I don’t think it’s a problem with Dorico. It’s the fonts themselves.

Ugh, this is bad news…

It’s simple enough to fix. Just edit the Master Page so the title block is in a slightly different vertical position.

Of course if you are only worried about the fact that the next is not vertically centered in the text frame, and not exactly where it is on the page, the solution is even easier - just don’t look at the box. If all your publications are self-consistent, will anybody else even know this is a “problem?”

I think I have a better solution:

It seems fine in InDesign (as would be expected as both are Adobe) but WordPad doesn’t like Minion Pro either. Both examples below are Minion Pro on top and Minion underneath. They actually have quite a few design differences too, including the larger x-height of the non-Pro version.

InDesign

WordPad

Thanks guys. I will probably take Leo’s route. But of course it IS a problem (and I’m not saying it’s Dorico’s problem). I hate accumulating these sorts of hidden compensations.

Nevertheless, I appreciate the help!

To be honest, I will probably revert to the “free” version of Minion Pro I had been using. It didn’t have these problems.

Update: I de-activated the “official” Minion Pro from the Adobe Toolkit and re-installed this one. The padding looks much better:

I’m not sure if I should feel any compunction for using the un-official font version, but… I don’t.

Indeed! Thanks for the info, Dan and Fred. I’ll definitely switch to the unofficial version, as well. That’ll save me a lot of work with older files. Has either of you noticed differences in quality?

I’m not using the unofficial version, I just have the official non-Pro version installed too. It was my main text font in the late-90s, early-2000s so I keep it installed for compatibility purposes, even though I have the Pro version installed too for use in InDesign.

I don’t think so. The capital T creates a ligature that joins with a lowercase h if it follows it, but that doesn’t bother me (and come to think of it, I don’t recall whether the kosher version did that by default).

Fred, is there a difference between Pro and non-pro?

Also, I really like some of the alternatives here (although I generally stick with MP). Especially Lyon!

I just tried moving the official versions out of the fonts folder (i.e. uninstalled them), placed the unofficial replacements in their place and then started both Finale and Dorico up with a degree of trepidation. I’ve had bad experiences in the past with Finale not recognising replacement fonts whose file names differed even slightly from the original ones. Neither program had a problem at all. I don’t even need to have the official versions installed. Very relieved!

Pretty scathing but still a humorous article! I don’t agree that choosing Minion represents the absence of making a font choice, akin to the use of Times New Roman.