Routing Issues with Multitimbral VSTs

[midikota]

I’d like to know if this issue has been resolved in Cubase 15.

I suspect it hasn’t, though.

I’ve raised this issue in the past, and while I don’t think it will ever be fixed, I’ve started this thread to double-check just in case, since there’s an update sale going on right now. I apologize for that.

I have checked the official bug fixes and such.

● Bug Details (Content of the Uploaded Video)

*This issue is a bug that occurs when a multi-timbral sound source
is saved as a multitrack preset consisting of multiple channel groups and then recalled.

1. First, create a group of MIDI tracks that correspond to the multitimbral sound source and its input/output buses, and save this group as a multitrack preset.

In the spectrum on the left side of each MIDI track, be sure to set the “Multi-Output Instrument Return Channel”
to a channel other than Channel 1 of the source instrument channel.
*Set it to the bus out you added.

Then, recall the preset..

Here, I’ve launched Omnisphere with up to 8 channels.

2. Focus on track 2 or higher of that instrument and click “Edit Channel Settings” in the left panel. The output routing in the panel that appears correctly displays the routing for channel 2.

ーーーーーーーーーThe steps up to this point are fine. The problem starts here

3. Focus on a track starting from channel 2 in the same way, and this time use a shortcut to bring up the “Edit Channel Settings” panel. The routing then changes to channel 1.

4. Focus on the channel 1 track and increase or decrease the number of VST multitimbral outputs (Omnisphere in this case).

5. Do the same thing you did in step 3. The routing will then correctly revert to 2 channels.

Has this bug been fixed in version 15? As far as I can recall,

this bug first appeared around versions 12–13, and it’s been driving me crazy ever since. I suspect it hasn’t been fixed in version 15 either, but if anyone knows for sure, I’d appreciate a reply.

[cubic13]

Hi, @midikota

I tried several times doing this, but with Halion Sonic 7, as it is available when having a Cubase licence :

1. Added HS7 as instrument track.
2. Enabled all its output busses (there are 16 of them) with the Right zone > VSTis > Input/Output options on HS7.
3. Created 15 MIDI tracks (Output Routing : Halion Sonic - MIDI / Channel 02) : the added tracks created are routed from channel 2 to 16.
4. Tried various combinations of clicking the e button of the inspector, removing some output busses and using a shortcut previously defined in the Key Commands window (the latter opens the channel settings of the selected MIDI track, instead of the Instrument track ones).

I’ve been unable to reproduce the issue. The problem I have with your video is that there are several tracks/subtracks that are hidden, and I suspect that among them, there is a channel labelled as ‘2ch’ that could explain the apparent routing misbehavior, as there is no such Instrument Track visible labelled as so, contrarily to what is displayed in the Channel Settings window of the MIDI track selected.

Could you try again to post the same video, but with all the involved tracks visible, this time ?

[midikota]

First of all, thank you for testing this.

I’m sorry—perhaps I didn’t explain myself clearly enough.

It would be a great help if you could try this test again.

1. Please try saving the multiple tracks you created using the HS7’s multi-out in that test (the HS7 instrument plus 15 MIDI tracks)

as a multi-track preset.

2. Load the track preset you just created, focus on the MIDI tracks starting from channel 2, and use the shortcut to open “Edit Channel Settings.”

*At this point, be sure to click “Show Output Chain” on the top bar. After clicking that button, the output destination will be set to channel 1.

The reason you couldn’t reproduce the issue this time is that

2. In the HS7 right zone > VSTis > Input/Output Options, you enabled all output buses (there are 16 of them).

That’s because the bug is fixed at that point.

As shown in the video above, if you add or remove an output destination in the Output Options even once, it reverts to normal.

I demonstrate this in the video I uploaded, so it would be helpful if you could watch it again.

In short, when you first load a track preset, the channel settings panel for MIDI tracks 2 and higher (when accessed via shortcut) defaults to channel 1,

but routing returns to normal once you add or remove any channels in the Output Options.

In other words, every time you create and load a multitimbral track preset, if you want to correctly reset the routing in the settings edit panel for channels 2 and beyond, you’ll have to adjust the input/output options each time.

This is a long post, and my writing might be a bit clumsy—I’m sorry.

Does this explanation make sense?

[midikota]

GigaFile（ギガファイル）便

I’m sorry, but I couldn’t upload the video here because it would exceed the file size limit.

However, I’ve uploaded a video here that starts with me loading the very first multitrack preset I created.

Can you see what I mean?

When you use a shortcut to open the settings panel for tracks starting from MIDI 2, the output on the far right is set to 1 channel.

But if you bring up just one output from Omnisphere and then hide it,

that alone restores the correct routing.

[Johnny_Moneto]

I don’t have this issue either on Cubase 15.0.30.
Either it got fixed or @cubic13 and I are doing it wrongly.

If you still have the trial period for Cubase 15 available to you, you could download the trial and check it out for yourself.

[cubic13]

Hi again,

I must admit that I skipped the Trackpreset creation, in my previous attempt…

So, I made the full test again, after having created the trackpreset, this time, including HS7 in an Instrument Track (‘HALSonic’) and 15 MIDI tracks associated to it. After having remove them, I recalled the trackpreset :

I select the 2nd MIDI track and open its Channel Settings, using the shortcut previously defined in the Key Commands window (Ctrl+Alt+!) :

I closed this window and disabled the two last output busses of HS7 :

… and got this, opening again the second MIDI track Channel Settings :

IOW, exactly the same routing, as expected. And that’s why I asked you to repost a video showing the hidden channels, as I’m almost sure that there is an output bus named 2ch that is hidden and is the actual destination of your MIDI track, being in the way.

So, if you’re not in the position to post a related video again, can you post a screenshot of it instead, showing all the output busses of Omnisphere (by clicking the Show/Hide Automation area of the Instrument Track (‘1ch’) header ?

[midikota]

Thank you so much for testing this so many times!

And please accept my apologies for my poor explanation.

Also, I left out one detail.

Since I’ve been using this custom track preset every time, I seem to have forgotten that I’d customized it slightly myself. Could you please set it up as described below and test it again?

I’ve attached a screenshot as well.

I’ve circled the buggy part in white for clarity.

Since I haven’t changed the “Out” name in HS, I don’t think the track name is relevant.

I’ll be using the same HS setup as well.

1. Assign HS to the instrument track.

Add a bus in the Input/Output Options.

(To keep things simple, just use HSout2 here.)

2. Add a MIDI track and route the MIDI track’s output to the HS.

*Everything up to this point is standard procedure—I’m sorry, but I left out the explanation from here on.

Also, in the “Multi-Output Return Channel Routing” section of the Specter on the left, set the routing for MIDI Channel 2 to HSout2.

This way, when you’re focused on MIDI Channel 2 and call up the channel settings editor using a shortcut, it will default to HSout2 as usual.

I’ve included a screenshot below.

3. Save this HS instrument track and the MIDI Channel 2 track (outputted to HS) together as a multitrack template.

4. Load the multitrack template you just created.

Then, if you perform the same steps, the result will look like this.

In the state described above, if you adjust the input/output settings for the left channel of the HS—which is the main unit—

let’s say, for example, that you check channel 3 and then immediately deselect it.

This will restore the routing to normal.

I’m truly sorry for my lack of clarity in my explanations so many times!

Does this make sense now?

[cubic13]

@midikota

Does this make sense now?

More or less… I just did the test again, following exactly your repro with only HS7 as Instrument track and an added MIDI track routed to HS Out 2.

After your step #4, and if I understood you correctly, I am supposed to have ‘HS Out 2’ as value of the Return Channel setting of the MIDI Track inspector and ‘HALSonic’ as label of the Instrument track displayed in its Channel Settings window. The problem is that I have, in both, ‘HS Out 2’, using either the shortcut previously defined, or the e button of the MIDI Track header in the track list…

So, either I still have a problem understanding the issue or this one has been fixed between the Cubase version you are using and the 15.0.30 one.

[midikota]

Hello, thank you very much for taking the time to test this despite my inadequate explanation.

In your version of Cubase, if you load a multitrack template that was saved with return channels configured and then use a shortcut to load the channel settings,the output for the 2-channel MIDI track’s return is set to HSOut2, correct?

In my version (14), using the shortcut sets it to HALIionsonic (1ch).

, but pressing the “e” button changes it to HSOut2 (displayed correctly)…

Perhaps this has been fixed in a later version, or maybe I’m setting up my shortcuts incorrectly.

By the way, since I’m Japanese, I’m selecting shortcut destinations in Japanese, but I don’t know which English shortcut corresponds to them.

Could it be that the shortcut I’m selecting in Japanese isn’t the right one (a bug specific to the Japanese version?)

Or has this been improved in version 15?

[cubic13]

Hi again, @midikota

@midikota

In my version (14)…

OK - I didn’t know until now what version you are using until now (should have asked this from the start…). So, I just tested this again, but with Cubase Pro 14.0.41, this time, as I have still have it installed - AFAIK, it’s the last update that has been released for this Cubase generation. And indeed, there is an inconsistency in the label display behavior : I’ve been able to reproduce the problem you reported.

So, after a new test, I can only confirm that this has been fixed in the current version of Cubase Pro (15.0.30, as I’m writing this).

@midikota

Could it be that the shortcut I’m selecting in Japanese isn’t the right one (a bug specific to the Japanese version?)

Concerning this, I have used the Edit > Edit Channel Settings key command for the tests done, both in C14 and C15.

Hope this help.

[midikota]

Sorry for the late reply.

I truly appreciate you taking the time to carefully review my explanation, despite its shortcomings.

It was very helpful.

Thank you so much! Thank you.

[BrunoDSL]

The first thing that caused all that confusion is you tagged your thread as “cubase-15” when you’re talking about a Cubase 14 issue.