Segno (sign symbol) is microscopically small

I am sure I have seen some comments about that, but I cannot find them today. I realize that I can go into ENGRAVE mode and set a custom scale for that one symbol, but I have to do that on every single part. Is there a way to do a mass change?

And assuming that sign is an error that will be corrected in a future release, does that mean one day I will open this Dorico file and by segnos will be gigantic?

Is there some way to set this once for all my projects?

Engrave Mode—Font styles. You can change the font size universally. It’s “Repeat Markers” or some such category name from the list… can’t remember exactly.

Note the difference between “absolute” and “staff relative”… your repeat marks may be tiny because your staff size is small.

Maybe I misunderstand, but that only seems to change the size of the text under the repeat ending brackets. I don’t see that it changes the size of the Segno. And the repeat ending text size was OK. It was defaulting to 10.0 staff-relative.

You can see the problem in the attached picture. The sign needs to be large. Musicians need to be able to find that quickly. If I put this music out, I would be shot in the head by an angry mob.

My mistake. It’s in Engrave—Paragraph styles (not Font Styles). Under “Repeat Marker Sections.”

Raising it about 6 points should quell the angry mob!

Also, note the last comment here, by Daniel: https://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=246&t=148992&p=801004&hilit=segno+size#p804158

You will want to switch to a different layout, then back to that layout, before your font changes show correctly. It’s a bug that will be fixed soon.

Thanks. I had to push it to about 24 pt to get it to the size I expected to see. But unfortunately that also makes the “Fine” marking gigantic.

I think the basic problem here is that the Segno (and I presume the Coda jump glyph, which I haven’t used yet) are simply out of proportion with everything else. I guess I can compromise around 17 point and hope they just take me out back and rough me up a little.

Yup. I’d say find a comfortable global size, then resize locally as needed.

Engraving Options > Repeat Markers > Design. Set the “Scale factor for music symbols” to more than 100%. That will increase the size of the music symbols, without affecting the text.

This is much easier—thanks!

That does the trick. I set it to 200%, which should make my posse happy.

There is some weirdness here. When I applied Engrave → Paragraph Styles → Repeat Marker Sections, that increased the Segno glyph and also the “D. S. al Fine” text, as noted above. Once I saw your technique, I set the repeat marker back to its original setting. That restored MOST of the parts, but a few of the parts retained the huge text for “D.S. al Fine”. The only way I could clear that was by ending Dorico and launching again. I did not try to switch to WRITE mode and then back to ENGRAVE. That might also have worked.

Craig, have you read the link in Dan’s post (#5)?

No, I had not seen that. It is good to know I am not insane – at least not this time.

The issue of Segno Sizing is one that I encountered in Elements, where it is currently impossible. I would prefer (in Dorico Pro) to be able to size the Segno independently of the Coda and other signs. The current default sizing does follow a common practice in classical and sheet music, but as cparmerlee points out, it’s completely unacceptable for many contemporary applications. For years now I have sized the Segno much larger than any other symbol, just to ensure it’s easily visible at a glance to sight-reading musicians.

Indeed, if something has to stand out in a score/lead sheet, that’s the sign that articulate the structure. Missing a chord is nothing compare to getting lost in space! :mrgreen:
For sure, default segno size would benefit from a different treatment, more direct configuration.

The Segno (and to a much lesser degree the Coda sign) is the only musical symbol that does not come in the normal left-to-right sequence of performing the music. Sometimes the Segno is several pages earlier in the music. It needs to be seen.

In comparison, the Coda symbol is usually in a fairly obvious spot and we try to indent the Coda to make it easy to find quickly. You can’t do that with the Segno. The only real option is to make it big. I do try to organize the music so that the Segno is at the beginning of a line whenever possible. That does help finding it quickly.

The only music I’ve ever seen where I think the smaller Segno made sense was quickstep sized German band music that has very predictable DS al fine structures.

We do plan in future to provide separate scaling options for codas and segnos in Engraving Options (though this won’t help users of Dorico Elements directly, we’ll also consider changing the defaults).

That’s great news (and I was quite confident you were going to bring such an elegant solution)
Thank you!

Mine’s still “microscopically small” but that’s a hereditary, I mean an Elements problem, ahem :laughing:

Hey! Guess what? I found a solution yay!!!
Even Elements users can increase the size of their dal segno… :wink:
It’s in the properties panel “custom scale” switch; see the “before and after” shots attached…



Tada!
I feel like a new man!
AND I didn’t need viagra :laughing:

Dear wrldwdarr,
Thanks for bringing this out : I didn’t notice that there were new options in Engrave mode to handle this! I have been using the properties trick until now… My Engraving options are now changed and saved as default.