Hi Robby,
Thanks for getting back at me.
I did as you mentioned, but no Percussion map is loaded (although the bass drum, the glockenspiel and timpani play correctly). I noticed that there are 3 different Halion Sonic items (02-03-04) on top of the left window. And in my orchestral setup I have more than 16 channels. But even with a different Halton Sonic there there is indeed a Percussion map, the snare drum doesn’t play at all. Instead I hear the claves…
Hey Robby,
This was very useful indeed, I can now understand how this part of the software works… and it’s a welcomed change !!
What does it show when you click on the cog next to ch. 2?
Robby
Edit: Forgive the late response, I never received an email stating you replied.
Just because you are hearing correct sounds for some instruments, doesn’t mean that you have things setup correctly. It’s hard to explain, but for some reason some instruments (bass drum in my experience) will play somewhat correctly even though it is not totally setup correctly.
When you click on the cog, the following window should open.:
In the percussion map column, you need to add the appropriate percussion map:
In a large score, it is NORMAL to have multiple instances of Halion Sonic (each instance can only run 16 instruments - so if you have 30 instruments you would have 2, etc. ). Percussion instruments can really add to the number of instruments. Tambourine, Snare drum, bass drum, cymbals, triangle is a total of 5 additional instruments.
You need to make sure that you have the correct instance of Halion Sonic listed from the drop down.
If you are still having issues, we need a screen shot of:
ALL of your Halion sonic windows open, 1 per screen shot (if you have 4 instances, each instance in its own screen shot.
A screen shot of your percussion maps window
Please let me know if you have any other issues.
Robby
Hi there. I’ve been following/reading this thread because I’m in the process of creating Percussion maps for my VSL Synchronized Percussion set I recently purchased. I feel pretty successful with the Timpani setup, which is an Expression Map.
Now working on the snare setup in a Percussion setup.
Here are the screen shots of what I have set up in this test project:
VSL Synchron Player Snare Drum
End Point set up
Percussion Map
Play & Playback Tech. setup for Roll w/Snare On
Roll w/Snare Off
Percussion Instrument Play tech. Snare off
Perc. Instr. Play Tech. Roll Sn. On
So far with the PM setup, the “Snare On” & “Snare Off” seem to work.
I’m running into problems with the rolls, even though I’ve check many time the Key Switches, when played back, they don’t trigger as expected.
Wondering if anyone might know what I’m missing.
Here’s the project sample to look at.
Percussion Study SYCHized.dorico (1.8 MB)
Hoping all this makes sense, thank you for your time and consideration.
A lot to digest with that… and while I don’t have the sound library you are using, I believe you have the wrong note for snare drum rolls. You are using midi note 84 in the percussion map. I am thinking it needs to be 60, 61, or 62 (or 72, 73, or 74). Looking at the keyboard, I cannot tell where middle C is located. The rolls might be numbers in the 70s.
I can try to look more at this later. It might also be the snare on/off is causing the issue. At one time, years ago now, I remember running into an issue with using multiple playback techniques. I don’t remember the specifics at the moment, but it could be associated with that.
Robby
Another issue, I just saw is that you have 3 key switches occurring at the same time, in the percussion map. I am not sure if that is the issue. Do you need all 3 key switches keyed at the same time to get the sounds you want?
Robby
Robby, thank you for looking at this.
Here’s what I understand so far:
In VSL Synchron Player screen there are 3 columns:
Stroke Mode-Snare On/Off-Stack
Each column has 2 or 3 choices, which I’m trying to trigger with the respective key switches indicated next to each option.
I’m using C4=60 for my midi note table.
For a Normal Snare On Static Roll to play, I need midi notes 24, 21, 84. This is why I added those KS in the percussion map.
Make sense?
I don’t see why you are making a new technique for “Roll Sn. On” and “Roll Sn. Off”. If you potentially want others to be able to use your percussion maps, you’ll likely want to use as few custom playing techniques as possible, so you probably want to use the “tremolo” technique instead so that adding the three bars in the articulations panel will cause the roll playback automatically. You don’t need to define a custom percussion instrument playing technique in that case.
I see what the sample player window is saying now. Thank you for explaining this to me. You are correct that midi note 84 is the roll note.
Let me think on this some more. I think @mducharme has a good point about trying to avoid custom playing techniques.
Robby
OK. Being very new to this whole thing of EM & PM, plus the other variables involved in the process, my initial plan is to have custom techniques for the particular instrument I have, so I can trigger them when needed from the score.
Since this process is a trial & error approach, I’ve tried different combinations to get the result I want.
I chose to create new techs so I would hopefully not get lost in the “melange” of options and choices available for different plugins (Halion, VSL, etc.)
My question is: How would you go about setting the different options of this particular instrument I have using the techs available in the program? This snare drum has at least 8 possible choices, that I can choose from.
So one of the things to keep in mind is what to use expression maps and percussion maps for.
Officially, expression maps are supposed to be for pitched instruments only, such as pitched percussion, and unpitched percussion should not use expression maps at all. Unpitched percussion is supposed to use percussion maps and not expression maps.
However, it is quite common in unpitched percussion to have individual hits be velocity controlled and tremolo (rolls) be controlled by modwheel crossfade. This is one particular case where you have to use expression maps and percussion maps together on the same unpitched percussion track - the expression map simply to choose between velocity control and modwheel crossfade depending on the articulation, and the percussion map to do everything else.
Eventually, the percussion maps I believe are supposed to be extended to allow you to choose what dynamic controller is used in the percussion map and then expression maps will not be needed at all for unpitched percussion.
Hi Robby,
Sorry for the delay, I had to finish an urgent job first. The problem is solved now with your latest post. Indeed I had to check out all the Halion Sonic windows and one of them offered the right percussion map.
Many thanks for your support!
Jos
Hi everyone,
I’d like to know what reference books/materials you might us for percussion symbols.
I’m using “Behind Bars” by Elaine Gould.
Are there any other books/materials/resources that show what’s being used in contemporary percussion scoring?
I ask because I’m working on developing EM’s & PM’s for VSL Synchronized Percussion that I bought, and am finding that the playback techniques available don’t seem to fit for some of the instruments I have available.
In any case, I was just wondering.
Thank you for your time and consideration.
I hope I understand you question correctly. And if so… I hate to say this, but you are barking up a tree that does not really exist. There are some common practices. However, for every example of a “common practice” you will find there is at least one that goes against the practice.
Here are the most common ones:
1 - drum note heads are generally normal note heads (might be filled in diamond note heads, square note heads, etc.)
2 - metallic sounds (cymbals, etc.) are generally notated with x note heads or open diamond note heads (this includes playing on the rim of the snare drum or a rim shot on the snare drum as both utilize the metal rim).
3 - The triangle is sometimes written with triangle note heads (more common in today’s world).
But aside from that, there is not much regarding standardization of symbols for percussion instruments. I have seen regular note heads used for cymbals, I have seen X note heads used on drum head instruments for a regular notes. I have seen square note heads written for accessory percussion instruments. And combinations of everything.
I would say, when in doubt, use some text. “Sticks”, “with metal beater”, etc.
This might not answer many questions, but I hope it helps some. Is there anything in particular you are thinking about?
Robby
I’m glad to hear you got it working.
Robby
In my efforts to create as complete of EM/PM’s for my VSL Synchronized Percussion instruments as possible, it was suggested to me to use the playback techniques in Dorico vs creating new custom ones. This is so when sharing these EM/PM’s, other people don’t end up with weird playback tech. names. Since I want to be able to share them, I’m therefore trying to stick with what dorico has.
Based on what I know so far, this is becoming a challenge. So my question was if in the event that I do have to create something, it would not be too far fetched.
Make sense?
A lot of beaters are already there as playback techniques as material types, for instance:
Bowed
Dreads (beater)
Felt (beater)
Puffy (beater)
Rake
Rods (beater)
Sticks
I’m not sure whether I got everything. At first I thought brushes were missing, but from doing some searching it looks like Rake is another meaning for Brush. Perhaps @dspreadbury or someone else can clarify whether this is what was meant by “Rake”.
One notable absence is “Superball” which is a common mallet these days for use by rolling over timpani, brass drums and cymbals.
It would be good to have a list of definitions for what these various built-in playback techniques were meant for - i.e. is rake referring to jazz brushes or something else, as this might help when using these techniques in building maps. Not necessarily in the software, but in the online documentation or some other resource. It would potentially save people from making a duplicate technique in cases where the technique was already there, just with a different name than they were expecting (ex. “rake” instead of “brushes”).
The thing that is missing currently is the mallet hardness as a technique - ex. soft mallet/beater, hard mallet/beater, medium mallet/beater.
I see what you are talking about. Sorry that I did not understand sooner, nor answer the question you were asking.
To be honest, I think the easiest way would be to create a list of the playback techniques that you created, and share the list along with the EMs and PMs.
Perhaps a good suggestion for future versions of Dorico would be a way to export/import playback techniques. Then you could send the whole package to someone (Ems, PMs, and PT).
Aside from implement (sticks/mallets/etc/) PTs, the only other ones that I can think of would be snares on/off, motor on/off (vibes motor ), shell, rim, just to name a few that are default with Dorico.
As @mducharme has stated, most of the most common ones are there in Dorico. There are some missing, so if you created a list it in theory it shouldn’t be too large. And a rake is a type of brush. One with plastic bristles (harsher sound) rather than standard brushes with metal bristles (smoother sound).
I will try to find some documentation on VSL Synchronized Percussion later today to see if I can recognize something that doesn’t already in Dorico by default.
Robby
