Splitting stems of two condensed voices/instruments

How can I split stems of two condensed voices, or instruments? Dorico right now puts them all on one stem with one direction. I want it to split lower and upper voices.

Invoke a manual Condensing Change in Engrave mode. Be sure to select the effected instruments in the upper left column before doing the manual change.

Thanks @Derrek , a couple of questions crop up: It seems like I need to select a rhythmic position from where on I condense manually. I have now selected the whole flow for the very instruments I wanted to condense: hrn 1/3, and then hrn 2/4 etc… I switched back and forth between Write and Engrave mode, so I could select the whole flow as described, which is in itself not very convenient. Anyway. I then opened the dialogue Condensing Change , as you suggested, applied the steps I needed to : selecting the instruments I wanted to condense, and I was partly successful, as you can see in the screenshot. Horn 2/4 are just the way I want them to be, but all the rest, tpt 2/3, tbr 1/2, they don´t condense, and even hrn 2/4 only for a couple of bars.

You don’t have to select the whole flow. A condensing change works from its position onwards. So to have it be applied tp the whole flow, just select a note on beat 1 and apply it there.

A second thing: There is only one single condensing change for each point in time, and it holds all the changes needed from there on. So you only need one C.S. on beat one where you will apply all your manual condensing groups. No going back and forth between Write Mode and Engrave Mode needed.

Thank you!! But why then did Dorico not condense all of it properly, sorry I forgot to include the screen shot - here it comes.

We’d need a screen shot of your condensing change :wink:

Ah, ok, here you go!

And I just retried - nothing happens…
Am I missing something?

Yes, you are: Only the first of the 4 condensing changes is activated :wink:
And your condensing change for horns 1 and 3 puts them together into one single upstem voice. You have to drag horn 3 down to “Down-Stem Voice”.

Thank you @Estigy . Only the first of the changes is activated, you say. Do they all need to be activated? And where, do you mean in the Notations Options, and which? Sorry to ask like this, I am trying to make sense of the instructions in the manual, but I must admit, I am too tired and worn out to grasp it. I neeeeed a vacation. But I must finish this before.

I meant the top left corner of the condensing change popup.
There you see 4 groups, but only the first has the checkmark, so only there a condensing change is active.
If you want the same setup (two separate voices with up and down stems) in all of these groups, you have to activate them and setup things in each of them accordingly.

Thanks, again @Estigy ! I did it. And it worked quite well. Funny, that it just does not go all the way through to the end. Tpts and Trbs are fine, Hrn 2/4 are, too, but 1/3 does not what I want it to do, and somewhere in the flow it changes back to one stem. Should I repeat the process from there?

Hm… Normally, when you add a manual change, Dorico keeps this settings for the whole flow. If it does not, there might something else be going on, but we could not possibly know without having a look at the file.
Could you strip it down to a minimal example that exposes the issue and attach it here? (Applying the “Silence” playback template will reduce file size if needed.)

I´m sorry, but I only included the whole thing. You can see right off the bat what´s going on: Horn 1/3 are on one stem, horn 2/4 are divided up to measure 42, from then on it´s single stem. The Trombones are fine until bar 57.
Ulf Muller TSE27 2nd formative - Live and Let Die-final Kopie.dorico (1.3 MB)

Now, here´s the bummer! How do I reverse this whole business? I do want to condense, as before, but I changed my mind about splitting the stems. When I now open the Condensing Change dialogue my implementations do not show. How can I reverse what I have told Dorico to do?

There ought to be a signpost (if you show signposts) marking each Condensing Change. Delete that to delete the changes you made.

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Thanks, @Derrek , that was easy and helpful! It reversed most of it. But just like with the first change - having the condensed voices split into two stems, and only partly seeing the result, most of it is back to one stem, some of it is still two stems. I guess it is like @Estigy remarked, there must be something else going on. Funny thing is - it does not occur in the same place. I´m puzzled.

When you don’t add any manual Condensign Changes, Dorico will decide on a per-phrase-basis if it will condense two voices to a shared stem or to two separated stems. Most of the time this is quite useful (and there are plenty of options), but sometimes Dorico’s definition of a “phrase” will not match yours.
(I’m not in front of my PC with Dorico on it, so I did not yet have a chance to look into your file.)

Thanks, @Estigy , I´m grateful for any kind of help!!! It appears as if you are saying that those occasional lapses into splitting stems can be reversed. How then, if I already deleted the Condensing Change sign posts?

Hi, Ulf.

I’ve had a chance now to take a look at your file.
The first Condensing Change in bar 3 sets up everything correctly. But then there is a second Condensing Change in bar 6 that throws horns 1 and 3 onto combined stems. Since this second change only is active for the first stave, the result is that horns 1.3 on stave 1 share their stems, while the other staves do have split stems.
Same with those Condensign Changes from bar 42: Each of them overwrites only one single stave, producing somewhat of a mess from there on.

When I remove the Condensing Changes, I see the source of the problem: Your dynamics. Dorico will only condense two players to the same stem, if not only the notes but also everything around them is completely identical.

  • Have a look at bars 6-13: Horns 1, 3, and 4 do have their dynamics, but Horn 2 is missing them. (Disable Condensing or switch to Galley View to see it.)
  • Same from bar 40 right up till the end of the piece: Horn 2 is missing its dynamics.

So, if you add the missing dynamics, Dorico will put the notes on one stem.

(In this regard, I really love Dorico’s Condensing feature as a major part of my proofreading process.)

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