I believe that learning music, composition, and instrumental techniques is a slow, lifelong process. Frankly, this is also one reason why I am a musician, because I enjoy this entire process. While AI may be technically superior, it will never (at least I hope so) be able to delve into my emotional world and make decisions like I do. With whom or what does the audience identify then, when it comes from a machine? Perhaps it’s like instant soup. Sometimes it is good and we’ve all had it before, but I still prefer to cook it myself.
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I follow this industry because a lot of my friends are graphic designers and CG artists for major movies. I know from their experiences the devastating blow that industry has had.
However, yes, some companies are facing bankruptcy and lawsuits are hitting them left right and centre, as these companies used a model whereby image generation is happening through illegal scrapping of copyrighted images from the entire internet. It is disgusting , really. These companies you mentioned might still be there, but things are far from great.
I have zero problems with AI as a tool to help with Cubase.
As an assistant, it could be an incredible tool. It could diagnose problems, fix them, create templates very easily , etc. I am against AI teaching music though, as people make a living out of this. However, there are many applications, as there are at present.
But my tolerance level to the notion that one can write a prompt on Cubase and let the machine do the work for you, is zero.
If you want to play around as an amateur, by all means, already there are a ton of tools to have fun with.
But adding a prompt-based, music-creating tool to Cubase, will be a complete kick in the teeth for professionals, and will unleash copyright implications the music industry has never seen.
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I get it. But majority of music these days is made with loops, beat generation, pitch tuning, automatic vocal harmonisation etc, so I don’t see a problem going one step further and having assistant tools you can use to fill up some parts for whatever reason, mix, remix, add expression to a part. And I think if someone isn’t interested in making music, they wouldn’t buy Cubase anyway. As for learning, I mean how that would be different than learning from a book? Many kids when they want to learn something these days they find it online anyway.
Again, I believe we can use this technology for our advantage, while people who want just generate something for fun will be there, as there always where ( I knew several people who bought themselves instruments to learn playing but they’ve never had enough grit to perceiver and had their instruments standing in the corner collecting dust, or tried learning music software and got bored ), we can utilise it serving our own needs.
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Loops is not AI, it’s pre-recorded material, pitch tuning is not AI, it’s a software, automatic vocal harmonization is not AI, it’s also a software.
“Fill up some parts” means having the machine do the work for you through Artificial Intelligence, one step away will be to having the machine inventing everything for you through an AI, melody, harmony, orchestration, mixing, mastering…everything, and that’s game over , really.
There will be no need to learn anything, or have any skills. However, I still maintain the copyright implications, which will be huge.
To your point for teaching. There are YouTube videos, but are not good enough for a musician to learn music.
Musicians will have to inevitably buy courses, and/or hire a teacher.
The YouTube videos are on line 99 times out a 100 to only entice people to buy a music course. In any case, these lessons are incomplete and one cannot pursue a serious and complete musical knowledge. Hence, teachers and music schools are still very much needed.
I still maintain that AI can be a fantastic tool. But not to do the job for composers and songwriters…I draw the line there.
Anything else, I will be more than happy for it to be integrated in Cubase.
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I agree about YT teachers, but there are also online books etc.
I remember over a decade ago when pro game composers that I was hanging out with in Brighton’s Pub, some with really huge releases, where upset and complaining about the fact that every new job first goes to Zimmer and his composers mafia, and if no one in the mafia takes the job only then it is passed to them. And it is still true, thought there is much more digital media produced these days. The point I’m making thought, established composer like Zimmer has hundred people that can help him make or complete his music. I don’t, and sometimes I need help, and those generative tools would be that - an assistant I could prompt to help out with this or that. Even Bach had his students completing his compositions. So I don’t see how that’s different. And if thanks to this I could make more money and hire actual human assistant, than that would be beneficial even more.
I take issue with Zimmer. I think what he does is unacceptable.
About Zimmer’s mafia thing, that’s the agency’s issue. They are sending everything to him and his company, and upon refusal , jobs trickle down. I was aware of that.
I didn’t know Bach did this, but if he did this, then it’s OK to have another guy write your stuff???
Look, I can see where you are coming from, but what you are suggesting is opening the Pandora’s Box.
It goes far beyond than anything that exists today for assisting writing and will annihilate the industry. If you can’t see this, I can’t really say anything beyond this to you.
No, I don’t believe the majority of music releases today tick those boxes.
Could that be because you’re not actually working in the music industry?
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I see and understand your point, however I don’t think that it will get that bad. I am aware that there is a storm on the sea already, but I believe we can steer that ship by taking advantage of those tools as an expansion of our workflows, and not a replacement. I believe that should be the message put forward towards creators of Ai tools too. Regardless, generative tools are here to stay, there’s nothing we can do about it, and we should use it for our advantage.
And yes, Bach would usually write bass and melody and his students would complete the rest. He had Operas written in a week. But he also had compositions he wrote himself from start to finish, because those compositions where his “science of music” experiments.
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I don’t work in music industry. I worked on games and films.
Edit: although in recent years I spent quite a bit of time with rappers and rap producers, and they are using a lot of loops.
I think you underestimate the greed of film production companies (see the annihilation of the CG artists and the graphic designers through AI) and the initiable hunger of amateurs to become the next Hans Zimmer, no mater what.
I appreciate you are trying to put a positive spin on this, but no matter what the argument, I can’t agree. I appreciate the talk though, thanks.
Mutual.
Just to add to your comments: modelling agencies also are using ai now, medicine too. I don’t know about the scale thought. Not sure about scale of cg. If you don’t mind sharing what your cg artist friends are saying. I’d like to know.
In a nutshell, it’s been carnage. I was talking to a person who worked on Rise of Skywalker, Tron Legacy and other huge movies as conceptual artist. He confided that a lot of people have been laid off due to advances in AI. Another who worked on movies such as Avengers: Infinity Wars is fighting tooth and nail to outlaw AI image generating companies. It really is not good out there.
Anyway, all the very best.
Seems ironic that one form of computer jiggery-pokery is threatened by another.
Sorry, what do you mean by that? If you are referring to Unreal Engine and the rest, there is a ton of work to get things done through these programs.
UE is created as a tool to artists. AI with prompts is created to assist idiots that want to be artists without being artists, and provide cheap labour to greedy companies. Ironic is not the word I would choose, tbh.
I assumed that the “CG” referred to Computer Generated. Not everyone thinks it’s the bees knees, just as not everyone thinks that AI is the dogs bollocks. (Am I allowed to say that?)
I still remember the fuss from the Musician’s Union when synths started to get popular. And to some extent, they were right - few producers use real strings, these days. Costs too much.
Yeah CG is what you described.
AI goes beyond anything previously invented.
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I must admit, although I don’t wish to restart our talk, but I can’t help notice that you are not working in the music industry. What prompts you to defend AI for automatic music creation?
You must surely understand that it will potentially wipe out an entire sector of working musicians. Is that not something that concerns you, or is it because it will not impact you, you are defending AI, as if it happens, the implications won’t have anything to do with you anyway?
PS. Again, loops are not AI, they are prerecorded files.
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If AI composes music, generates melodies, harmonies, basslines, etc., and everyone can do it with the push of a button, then those people aren’t really capable of judging music either. They don’t know what harmonization is, don’t understand the process, have no idea what pivotal modulation is, etc. The listener doesn’t need to know that; they can just enjoy it, but not the one writing the music. It’s without control, and we really lose substance because of it. By the way, hearing is trainable. One must engage with sound and thereby learn many facets to work with. That would all disappear. Additionally, as a listener, I want to be able to identify the music I hear with a composer, with a human, not with a machine.
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I am not defending the use of AI to generate music (or other forms of art for that matter), but to imply that one needs to be an accomplished composer in order to fully appreciate music reeks of elitism in my mind.
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I don’t think anybody here even came close to suggesting this…But yeah, totally agree.
Some of the biggest bands on the planet consist of writers who have no idea how to read or write music. It’s all down to the individual, IMO, and what they aim to achieve.
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