The most frustrating thing about Steinberg development, is half-integrated New Features

Cubase
1

I love Cubase, I have been using it since SX3, I couldn’t use any other DAW although if I had to - it would be a customized version of Reaper.

Cubase is an impressive piece of software, not just within the music world but software in general.

But when I find myself frustrated with development, it’s usually to do with new features that feel as if they are still in a beta state - Lack of HID protocols, bad menu systems, constricted UI, bugs, lack of management utilities, etc.

It usually takes me some time to incorporate new features completely into my workflow, maybe a year… And in the beginning I’m very excited and inspired to start incorporating them - but then in that process, only seem to be discovering so many problems that leaves me sort of whishing I hadn’t involved myself with them or at the very least have to reconsider/replan my use of them.

The latest case of this, is with Modulators: They have ZERO management integration.

I’ve been extremely excited with Modulators the past couple months, doing all sorts of crazy custom scripting in ModScripter, incorporating them into Templates, and doing all sorts of experimental sound-design tests and pre-production…

…I can’t save, duplicate, transfer, or copy any of the work/personal developments I’ve done with modulators:

  • Modulator assignments don’t save with Track/FX Chain presets.
  • Modulator banks don’t have their own Chain Presets.
  • Modulator assignments aren’t retained in Track Archives.
  • Modulator assignments don’t duplicate when duplicating a channel.
  • Modulator assignments aren’t retained via ‘Import Tracks from Project’
  • Bug: Opening multiple projects will delete assignments
  • Bug: Can’t refocus ModScripter code edit window
  • Bug: Modulator renames don’t save with project.

There are multiple instances of this going on with various new features/updated parts of the program, for example the “new” (2022) Project Logical Editor broke many existing features - a primary ‘Call Preset into Window without execution’ functionality - which still isn’t fixed… And on top of that, the menu systems are near unusable, preset management is non-existent, lost the ability to alt-click preset name to re-name, etc, etc.

Again, great new features in the PLE that I wanted… But implementation could have been a lot better. Transferring/redoing my old PLE+Macro chains into PLEs was absolutely painful.

all the while other core features that have been around for decades that don’t receive updates/modernization - Workspace Manager is still a tiny non-resizable window - No search-filter in the manager, no quick-search prompt finder window (still have to use the old number prompt).

Again, I love Cubase, and in many regards admire what they come up with - but when I actually try and pursue a path to make the most out of what the developers have created, I end up getting frustrated with what they have created and the new feature I want to utilize.

The end result user experience is, feeling like swimming in a bowl of chunky cold beta soup and old left behind features - lots of chunky features… that are difficult to bite into, and some of the chunks are years old.

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image1571×1183 26.1 KB

In the above image, there are a lot of failures with Green, and an absence of Yellow - which negates the validity of being a competitive feature…

It gives impression/feeling that Steinberg is just developing to be competitive on paper - rather than in actual use… “Bitwig has modulation, well so do we (you just can’t save/transfer anything)”

I’m not in Steinberg development, offices, meetings… But If I’m running a software company - the above diagram is on everyone’s desk, on every whiteboard, given to every alpha and beta tester and power user - and no new feature is released until it meets a strict protocol guideline:

-HID Protocols
-Workflow Efficiency Protocols
-Repetitive task prevention
-Menu Protocols
-UI Protocols
-Window Protocols
-Preset Protocols
-Integration and Management Protocols
-etc.

All New/Improved Feature developments would go through a stringent use-case “obstacle course”

-Someone who is using this feature 14 hours a day
-Number of entries a user is going to make and accumulative detriments (how many presets might end up in a preset menu)
-Repetitive feature access
-multi-selection vs single selection

I can’t think of everything right now, the point is, I would have an internal document that continues to grow as protocol awareness developed in the company.

And this would get applied to the simplest of simplest things. What type of menu system should be used, would be thought about and discussed and tweezed apart and tested.

For example - MediaBay - fantastic chunky feature, absolutely terrible menu :
MediaBay: Set Up Results Column: PLEASE(!) get rid of this drop down menu + Presets - Cubase - Steinberg Forums

Example - Frequency 2 - Amazing Multi-Sidechain EQ plugin - terrible UI/UX:

Prioritize the simple stuff ahead of new features. It’s very dismaying as a user to get new features instead of fixing previous and improving the overall useability of the software… I use everything prior to a new feature, more than I use a new feature and I’m less likely to use a new feature if it’s not thoroughly implemented.

Hold off on releasing new features. Get the simple stuff done first. Take your time with the new features. Give us lots of updates on the simple stuff, put new features on a 2 year release cycle instead of one.

(edit: Why I created this poll thread: Poll: A Release Cycle With No New Features - Only detailed clean up, and preparation for Linux Port - Cubase - Steinberg Forums )

2

..and sounding exactly the same since generations. Steinberg pls, let it sound more natural, better…

3

@Emilio_Biagini1

I’m not sure what you’re getting at, just to clarify, are you talking about the actual “sonic quality” of Cubase?

4

Please, don’t even go there…

5

… I’m not the one going there…

6

Too bad, this would have been entertaining…
:popcorn: :smiling_face_with_sunglasses:

7

I was ready for it, plus it would have kept my rant bumped.

8

:slightly_smiling_face:

Well yeah, but … again?

9

I love the structured approach of your post.
I’m also a long-time user and would love for these things to get all ironed out as you explain.
For reference, I used in the past another German software which had exceptional UI and UX, Cinema 4D.
I hope Steinberg can have the drive and clarity to go through Cubase and revitalize all the processes with very thoughtful design decisions for multiple scenarios.
And fix the zoom behaviour and window positioning issue on double stop.

10

I absolutely agree on this. I would also add that some of the legacy stuff is amazing but is in desperate need of modernisation (channel strip, the modernisation of existing processors (!!), better integration of perceptive makeup gain)

11

I too find the Menu System to be terrible and frustrating to use. I give up using them - - missing out on many features I’ve paid for. Time goes by & life is too short.

12

Yes.

If I open the same file on Cubase, Logic and PT, in Cubase I feel it to be “harsher” than in Logic or PT.

I am a Cubase lover, since 1992, but I would be happier by the sound “smootness” of PT and Logic…

13

I’m totally for stability and “user experience” improvements.

These things are hard to sell through a marketing campaign, I get it, but it gains trust and a silent respect among users, just like RME Audio. Everyone knows it just works.

Boring but all the important basics are boring. A software should feel like a healthy body. If I don’t feel an itch (glitch or crash in software terms) it works great because you don’t think about it. You just focus on the task.

I’m in the Cubase system only for some months and I like it. Reaper is still my main DAW but that’s because I use my customized Reaper version for over a decade. And no, I would not change cubase to a reaper clone.

14

It is well documented and tested that there is no sonic difference between these DAWs at their core. They all use the same math at the core which is to have no affect on an audio file. Thus they all null.

Certainly, if there were some difference, it wouldn’t be so much so that one would sound more harsh than another.

15

I’ve created a community contribution thread

for small boring details that are important, as well as improving what already exists in Cubase:

Making What Already Exists Better - A thread for small, boring, important details (No New/Big FRs) - Cubase - Steinberg Forums

16

Respectully of all technicalities that a pro test van offer and reveal, I just trust my ears, having done blind tests.

Anyeay, just an opinion

17

Actually is there a bug report website to filed reports with issues? I use Nuendo 15 and some times, may be twice a month, I got Dizzzzzzz and kill the app from the windows task manager, don’t know this is Windows or Nuendo thing? is there a bug area to report bugs? or send email to someone?

when I go to

and click on Contact support it loops back to

:slight_smile:

18

It seems to me that tasks get allocated a specific amount of time and when that time is up it’s left in that state either for years or for good. Take something like the control app, they take the money and leave incomplete for many years, then decide they can remonetize it by redeveloping but leaving out the most important feature, indicators that snap to beats. No more development. Bear in mind that for many years it wouldn’t even load on my iPad.

it’s very frustrating to me, I’ve been a user since Atari days, most of the time in the last 15 years has felt more like punishment. SX1 was where it started to go wrong imo. At least Cubase is finally stable these days.

19

Funny you should ask my dear Nuendo user. There actually is an area to report confirmed bugs for version 15.0.30. So you need to run the latest version and find another person to experience the same issue.

Alternatively you can always issue a support ticket in the MySteinberg account on steinberg.net

20

Oh dear, so it’s not only me. Too many features that are so clearly half-baked, and unfinished but full of potential. I’m not a fan of coming to be just critical, but this is one of my deepest frustrations with Steiny.

I so feel the same, for e.g. what about having no library to reuse automation lane events? So we set them up and have to keep rebuilding the same things. Why can’t we drag/drop these? There are some kinda partial workarounds but nothing that helps the workflow IMO.

Same for midi parts, I’ve raised it before repeatedly. Midi parts/events are the heart of what we do, and yet I find myself redoing things I’ve done a hundred times because there’s no simple library solution.

You can drag from the Media Bay but not to it. Media Bay, Harmony Voices, Sampler, Chord Pads, Browser and in-part Logical Editor— IMO these are just some of the features I felt were added and essentially abandoned before maturity.

There are things to be grateful for in Cubase, but feature evolution is not one.