Ties over repeat ending bars

Is it possible to have ties over repeat ending bars like this?

image

Not at present, although it’s certainly been requested. The current method is to activate laisser vibrer ties and then move them backward in engrave mode.

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I took too long copying the link…

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It’s the thought that counts.
We’ve all been there, and just think: what if Romanos had been delayed and doricorn had had to wait for a response?

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They could have done a forum search, lol. (All due respect, of course, but this has been answered like 25 times.)

I’m still thankful you guys helped me out! I always search before I ask questions, but I wasn’t able to find this somehow…

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It would be a very welcome feature!

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As would many others, alas.

I miss the early days of Dorico though when we had a vision of everything being done properly, and workarounds seemed something to be ashamed of. I remember each release bringing little delights as we were freed from chores. Where there was something lacking, we seemed to have the belief that it was only because the developers were working on a marvellous solution.

I remember feeling slightly alarmed when someone wrote that a lot of things had turned out to be more difficult than anticipated and though recent releases have been packed with features, there’s no longer the sense that Dorico’s developers are working on things that matter to them personally. Five years ago Paul Walmsley wrote ’ chances are we do care about it… Please bear in mind that if there’s something in the application that is very frustrating or limiting to use, then we’re probably finding it very annoying too. Annoying things do tend to get fixed for this very reason.’ but I wonder if he’d feel able to make those statements now.

An idealistic bit of me still imagines that maybe the work on ties into second time bars and codas is being deferred until Dorico can perhaps fold and unfold repeats on demand (which would be quite an achievement) but I don’t really have this faith any more and I don’t sense it in others.

Perhaps creating notation software (particularly if the software will also ‘perform’ the music) is simply such a huge undertaking that victory is always going to be elusive.

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I don’t share your pessimism or apparent lack of faith in the development team.

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The vision of Dorico handling as many things as possible as automatically and as semantically as possible remains undimmed. The reason we have not yet implemented any kind of solution for items that need to be treated specially at repeat endings is precisely because we want to do it properly, and these things take a lot of time and effort.

We remain just as detail-orientated and focused on producing a beautiful end result as ever, but our focus in the Dorico 4.x cycle has been primarily on workflow improvements and on rebuilding Play mode. We are a small development team and can only work on so many things at once, particularly if we want to do a good and complete job.

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I am pessimistic but I’m in no way critical of the development team.

Dorico is quite an achievement but the optimism of the early days was perhaps always unrealistic and some sense of disappointment has perhaps been inevitable. I do find that there are fewer delights in latter-day releases and that some annoyances have been around for a long time.

Hopefully the Dorico 5.x cycle will bring a renewed focus on notation and publishing.

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I have found in searching for answers before posting my questions that unless I happen to accidentally land on the correct word that has been used in previous threads or replies, I get no results from the search. But the first thing many people post is a link to the solution I’m looking for in a different thread. It takes careful thought to try to use the proper vocabulary to get results.

Don’t forget, too, that in the last two years, the development team faced a major architecture change on the Mac side and lost some talent to the licensing project, and have faced hurdles with a Qt version change.

Now that the software is arm native, and the primary hurdle of devising and launching the DRM software has occurred, hopefully that means that those members of the dorico team can pivot back to their primary focus.

Like others, my faith is undimmed. You are right, tristis, that if feels different now, but I suspect it’s more the ending of the proverbial ‘honeymoon phase’ than anything. The other issue is that it wasn’t quite as difficult to wait for desired features in the early days, whereas it is a bit harder now because we’ve all had to fill in the gaps much longer.

Also, no doubt as the user base has grown, some of the priorities have shifted too. But at no point has Daniel’s faithful support ever wavered, nor has their been any sign that the quality of development has waned; merely the perceived speed.

In a program that’s small, 5 new major features in a release is proportionally significant. In a more mature program with hundreds of features, 5 new major features appears less so, when in reality it took the same amount of time and effort from the dev team, meanwhile the amount of bug fixing and regression testing has turned into an ever blooming chore. Atlas’s ball gets heavier and heavier to hold. In a certain sense, this makes their recent achievements even more impressive.

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I assume that a large proportion of Dorico’s users are professional musicians of some sort. So there may be a tendency to forget that music notation software is a niche product. How many users can a notation software optimally count on? I think it was mentioned here somewhere, but I forgot. In any case, the number is certainly small (30’000? Or even less?). Accordingly, the size of the development team is limited. In an ideal world, we would either have a sponsor who would hire 50 other employees (if they were that many qualified developers at all, probably not) or everyone works for free, just for the fun of it. Both scenarios are not realistic, so for the time being we use “laisser vibrer” ties for second endings and look forward all the more if one day there will be a native solution for it. :grinning:

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In Finale, it’s always been possible to Ctrl-click a note and pull up all of its various attributes, sort of like the Properties panel in Dorico. One of the possible attributes is “Tie End,” so it’s just a click to get this result in the 2nd ending below.

I imagine the team is waiting to implement a system that handles the visual and the playback, but in all honesty, I’d be happy with just the visual. A one-click “tie end” Properties checkbox would be a lot easier than dragging LV ties around, especially if you have a lot of them to do in a project. The playback could always be implemented at a later date.

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Exactly.

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That’s my worry. I don’t think anyone would dispute that the team has been extraordinarily productive or that anything would suggest the work isn’t of great quality, but I wonder if five years on it’s still true that ‘Dorico is a scoring tool first and foremost and so engraving quality is of the highest importance and as such is the focus of much of our work’.

It’s small things that tend to have delighted me and small things that can ruin one’s day. They’re not headline news but they can make a big difference to everyday use.

Of course it remains true. (Paul made that statement in the middle of a particularly wordy – and dare I say tiresome – thread here.)

Even in the Dorico 4 development cycle, which has been largely focused on workflow rather than new engraving features, we’ve:

  • added beautifully-positioned figured bass bracketing
  • implemented numbered bar regions
  • completely revamped the way lyrics are drawn and thus provided greatly enhanced options for their appearance and alignment
  • made it possible to input, edit and change the positions of rests in percussion kits
  • added new options for the placement of articulations on split stems
  • added new options for the appearance of repeat barlines at system breaks
  • added chord diagram fingering
  • improved the placement of accidentals in key signatures for the (very obscure) mezzo-soprano clef
  • greatly improved the flexibility of staff labels (including adding brand new player group labels)
  • added new options for cautionary accidentals in modernist scores
  • added new options for beam slants for groups with repeated notes
  • added new options for the extent of wiggly trill lines
  • added new possibilities for centred beams
  • made it possible to alter the thickness and spacing of individual beams
  • added parentheses for chord symbols
  • made it possible to change the middle and end thickness of individual ties

…and probably some other things I’m forgetting. That’s not exactly a short list of engraving-focused improvements.

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