Trim automation problem

I’m running into a problem with trim automation, I haven’t used it for a while so I’m not sure if it’s new behavior but it really doesn’t feel like it makes a lot of sense:

I’m trying to adjust a region on a track so I’ve set up the L and R markers, I’ve selected “fill loop” and activated trim. Now, what I select as Freeze Trim option has a big impact on how things function. Let me try to break it down, and I’m starting with trim automation in stop mode:

  • With “On Pass End” selected, it does nothing at all. After I move the fader, it jumps back to 0 position, no changes to the existing automation.
  • With “On Leaving Trim Mode” selected, it draws a line according with the position of the trim fader, but it doesn’t change the curve of the existing automation. Now, here’s the weird part: if I undo and redo, the changes are reflected to the existing automation. Exiting trim mode commits the changes. I also get the same result if I turn write automation off and on again while in trim mode. (Leaving it off and exiting trim does not commit the changes, only when it’s back in write mode).
  • Same behavior as above with Manual freeze trim selected, but of course with the extra step of having to freeze the trim, and with one little difference: Freezing the automation also works when the track is not in write mode.

Ok, so this really seems like something is wrong, or am I mad?

Ok, over to trim in Play mode, and here things start to get really odd…
So first off, the “fill loop” function does work…sort of. It fills to the start of the loop, but it then goes on to the end of the project (same trim value). Except when Freeze Trim is set to “On Pass End”; in that mode, it writes the movements, and then when I let go it fills to the end of the project. BUT, here’s the fun part: the visual representation is something very different. It appears to write just partially forward, and I was going nuts at first trying to figure this out, but I finally figured out that it’s actually a graphics bug. If I for example zoom out and in again, it shows the curve correctly. (Still, with automation written all the way to the end).

Ok, lastly, just looking at the very last part there. Why does it fill all the way to the end, not just the loop? After some experimentation, I noticed that it places a node on the trim line at the start of the project. Adding a node to a later part in the project (after the section I want to trim), now it actually fills the loop as it should, and doesn’t continue to the end. It does appear to write to the later node when moving the trim fader, but it then snaps to the loop only.

A bit of a TL;DR here I guess and not a proper bug report. I can write one shortly with more of a step-by-step description, it’s just that it’s so many things happening at once here, and I wanted to check what others can reproduce. I’m particularly interested to hear if anyone is seeing the same issue with the graphics in play mode.

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Unfortunately trim with fill loop, as well as a couple of other things, aren’t intuitive and to the extent that there are bugs (there are) they’re really hard to nail down.

I followed your description above and not only does the same thing not happen, the ‘errors’ I get aren’t consistent. So sometimes I get what you get, then two minutes later I do the exact same thing and get a different result.

I reported problems with Trim a while back:

BUG (?)- Automation Trim in Preview - Nuendo - Steinberg Forums

And got little traction in that thread.

Sadly I get the feeling that Steinberg got to a point with the automation system where they basically said “That’s good enough” and left the rest alone, or at least downgraded the priority so much that it’s likely not going to change this decade.