Why SO negative?

I must admit that I’m new to Cubase (still learning although it was my first DAW a long time ago) Having extensively worked with: Logic, Studio One, REAPER, Ableton Live. The first thing that struck me was the amount of blatant negativity in this forum… Compared to the other DAW’s Cubase is doing great, and I perceive it as my best DAW yet.

Constructive criticism is fine btw.

+1 to the OP.
I’m quite happy with Cubase 10, in a lot of ways, among others finally getting a MUCH better groove making workflow from the GrooveAgent 5 Beat Maker within Cubase 10, than I ever had with NI Maschine & Battery or other tools, in any Cubase version. I’m still seeing some Cubase 10 UI glitches and miss things like the Bezier curves mentioned, like others, but hardly see any reason for excessive rants.

And yes, it also looks to me, as if some of the overly atrocius and malevolent criticism in some topics here, might be more related to people having a hard time no matter what, not getting by too well with themselves, and their obviously immature, chronically demanding and dissatisfied personality, than with Cubase 10, or with any other tool or circumstance of the world they live in. I like concrete criticism reminding of important things, but I dislike waves of condescending rants from nasty little self acclaimed customer kings and queens not making much sense to me and making me think: who the heck do they think they are?

+1 OxygenBeats, pretty much my thoughts too.

Cubase is a great product and most of the positives about it are instantly overlooked. Nothings going to be perfect, it must be pretty Damn disheartening for people who work hard on the product feel like they’re constantly in the firing line and being critisied. I think anyone would be naive to think that they purposely want to cause users grief.

Where Steinberg do them selves no favours is with customer support and not being involved enough with the user base. Maybe they just don’t have enough staff?

Who exactly is Cubase for? Its pretty hard to cater for every type of musician, composer and producer and compared to other DAWs Cubase offers a very comprehensive set of tools for every type of muso.

Its a shame that C10 I’d having a rocky start for some, its a good product. Not perfect. But if they can iron out the issues and implement some features people have requested for a long time, it could be.

I don’t like this ‘The features are great! Now we just need N updates and fixes so they work properly and don’t crash Cubase’ mentality. Some of the problems are still present since the previous verison.
For example, I bought 9.5 just to get Direct Offline Processing for a film project I was working on (foley stuff with lots of events). DOP crashed Cubase everytime of using it (granted it was fixed later on. About 6 months later, just before 10 was released) which is a shame considering they were pushing it as one of the main features.
And as for older verisons - you can just forget about updates for those.
The features may be great but support and update policy could be waaaaaaaaaaaaay better.

I was about to say the same thing. I do electronic music and I use vari audio ALL the time. (and the new variaudio changes are going to speed up my workflow tenfold)

Of course, I loved the bezier curves for automation, and I would also love bezier curves for MIDI CC’s too.

Anyway, because Cubase has such a vast range of genres and styles it caters to, it allows me to be very flexible. One project I’ll be working on dubstep and the next I’ll be scoring music to video, and the next I’ll be mixing vocals for someone on a hip hop album.

Are you talking about instrumental electronic music producers? Because a good portion of electronic and dance music has vocals and that’s pretty well exactly who would use VariAudio.

I don’t mean the Pop EDM producers you hear in the radio. I mean the “unterground” scene: Techno, Deep-house, Tech-House, Progressive-Trance, Psytrance and so on… When they use vocal they often use Samples. And samples are often already processed.

I do rock, pop, folk and metal music and use VariAudio for vocal all the time (sometimes for instruments too). Use it for writing vocal harmonies as well.

I think it’s useful no matter what genre. if you’re dragging samples in for vocals, then there is a good chance that the vocal you want is not in the key of your music (unless you build it around the vocal sample, in which case if you find another cool sample, it probably will be in a separate key). So you can use Vari Audio to help fit the vocal/sample into the key/time of your music. And this can be applied to more than just vocals as well. Or if you want the pitch to be straight in spots or less straight, etc… there’s loads of uses for it.

I use it for lots of different things.

If you can use this feature, good for you. I know many other people love Vari Audio 3 too. It was just an example! You asked why some people aren’t happy with Cubase 10. There are new features that aren’t important to everybody. But other features would be much more important which aren’t there (for some people). Is this so difficult to understand?

Maybe I’m speaking out of turn, but IMHO there are two distinct groups of DAW users, hobbiests who kind of find their way around this huge product every time they use it - these will try and like the new features, then there’s the hardened professionals who are doing 10 hours a day in the chair, to these people time is money and they have very carefully honed and crafted workflows, you can’t say to an artist “hold on there while I dick around trying to figure out how the software works” - these are the people who will be outraged by moved or disappeared menu items and change for changes sake, this stuff really matters - and it seems Steinberg make pretty fundamental changes to workflow without actually asking the userbase what they need to keep! We all laugh at clunky old Pro-Tools, but put any PT user in front of any version and they can work with it, their shortcuts will work - the product will behave the same way - they don’t change stuff for no reason.

This is professional grade software, there are thousands of people who rely on it for a living - you can’t just make sweeping changes because you feel like it - that’s what pee’s most people off. Particularly as thousands of development hours are wasted on prettying things up when there are outstanding bugs that have been there for five+ years!

No, I completely understand that. I just thought you had a bad example of that. You should have just said “some people don’t use Vari Audio” rather than saying “electronic music producers don’t use Vari Audio”. I just thought the assertion was not accurate.

But I do get what you’re saying. I’m just curious if the majority of cubase users don’t use any of the features they upgraded but instead of just the features that have bugs now… or if that’s a small (but loud) minority of the community.

Fully agreed.

I’m underwhelmed with version 10 so far. I mean it’s the BIG version 10 and in my opinion the best new feature is how VariAudio has been improved (in many ways to make it like it should have been maybe a version or so back). Things like the ‘new’ interface are welcome but not if it means changing icons for no reason (the colour pallet) or moving menus from one place to another. I mean, what was the reasoning behind moving the preferences & key commands to a different area? :unamused:

New plug-in guis are welcome but come one, this is way overdue. Grungelizer has FINALLY had it’s GUI updated and this plug is from the SX days (or even earlier?).

FL studio offers free life time updates meaning that from Fruity Loops to FL 10, if you bought in, ALL updates have been free. I feel justified critiquing a product in which I have to pay almost yearly upgrade prices for that like mentioned above, change at times what isn’t broken and then reintroduce it back to us later down the line.

To each their own. I’d give the version 10 update a 6 out of 10.

Actually I invested in an adjustable height desk so I don’t have to sit for 10+ hours straight.

And I would think that a hobbyist would be even more mad because if they really don’t have the same amount of time in the DAW, the learning curve is going to take longer for them to get over.

But I get what you’re saying. i just didn’t think they changed THAT much of the work flow in a negative way.

For me, I have to push two enters instead of one now when I add tracks. That’s such a small deal.For other people, the cntrl+right click is contextual now. I feel like most of the functions you’d use that for should be tied to a custom key command of your choosing anyway.

I have a very very specific workflow and I’m not really that bothered by much that they’ve changed.

But I get what you’re saying…

I think he was addressing the way cubase evolves through the years…

It’s a bigger problem than just this update, it’s a recurring scheme.

But seriously I’m glad we got this software, and it’s amazing for the most part. I’m trying to avoid pessimism just for the sake of it.

I’m really concerned about the social effects of obsolescence in general and steinberg’s way of upgrading is just its most disgraceful aspect. I’m sure it’s the one thing that affects its reputation the most.

They want to better up their reputation? They need to be more perfectionist about it. Drop the yearly update pattern. Release your **** once it’s stable if you are going to charge for it. A buggy version should be a EXCEPTIONAL event, not a routine

As a relative newcomer to Cubase :smiley:

I can’t comment fully on Cubase, (bugs or problems) but I have invested,for the sheer amount of tools and features it offers.I have used other DAWs before like Ableton and FL Studio 20 .Each has its own unique quirks shall we say

I had considered Studio One,but Cubase seemed to gel with me,and fits my needs well,and offers me huge scope in music production

As to the latest release, While it frustrating there are bugs and wrinkles to iron out.I can only imagine the sheer amount of code the developers at Steinberg have to wade through.I
,I would like to see a sticky area of the forum,with regular updates on the progress and release of maintenance updates and other related things
and would like to see Steinberg interact with itd loyal fans on the forums more.
Maybe a live Q and session,from time to time,regarding progress with Cubase 10 and future versions

No DAW is perfect, but personally I think Cubase is an excellent DAW,given its pedigree,its huge fanbase,and many features.

Partly agree with this, there are two main types of user. Most people working in music (espeshially composers for media) will not rely on using menus to do something. Most of them map out their own key commands and macros because its ALWAYS more productive than siving through menues and sub menues, or they will use external gear like an ipad to control particular funtions because its simply quicker. So most changes concering menues sort of become mute.

Ameture music makers dont really tend to dive very deep into the DAW and dont look at creating their own workflow using key commands, logical functions or building macros. They souly rely on the default Cubase workflow. Which is OK. But no where as efficient as a custom workflow. So any major changes to that will affect that type of user.

Why so negative? This is why! I’ve been a professional producer using Cubase since version 1.0 for the Atari in 1989 and have purchased every single update ever made (until recently). I’ve also purchased much Steinberg hardware over the years. I know for certain that over the years dozens of musicians that I know have purchased Cubase thanks in no small part to my recommendations. In the past two years, customer support has become the worst I’ve ever experienced with any company of any kind that I’ve ever done business with, and that is saying a hell of a lot. My latest customer support queries started 3 or 4 months ago have been completely ignored (other than the obligatory initial automated acknowledgment reply). When I have managed to get someone on the phone (concerning a previous case that was eventually revealed to have actually been a bug, and then not resolved for months later), I was treated like a major idiot to say the very least! After my considerable involvement with Cubase and the tens of thousands of dollars I spent and generated for the company over the years, that really stings… still! That’s why so negative. So negative in fact, I stopped purchasing updates after Cubase Pro 8.5. :frowning:

The answer is adequately captured in the numerous C10 “Issues” threads.

To those suffering production losses on the live-beta-testing bleeding edge, I salute you for trying.

I’m waiting until I read proof that it works solidly with the UR824 interface and OS X Mojave.

I’m always “in production” I updated my whole computer and installed v10 in the middle of my latest project and I couldn’t be happier. Personally, I think the price of the update was worth it just for the Variaudio. I’ve been using Cubase since “Cubase Audio” and I don’t really think the basic workflow has changed that much. I used Notator on Atari; that was a page or section workflow and Cubase is linear. To me, ProTools was a replacement for multitracks and Cubase is a program for creating music, which happens to record as well. I get that everyone wants the entire package now - which it does well for me. It’s cheap too. All my songs have 12 tracks of live drums x 8 takes; and that’s before the BV’s which usually run to 60 or 80 tracks. Then there’s the VSTi and FX. I had all the hardware once and sold it all. I used to pay $300 for a roll of Ampex which fitted 3 songs. The new version was out for about 2 days and there were detailed videos on all the features - I didn’t have to look far to work it out. I’m NOT dismissing the bugs; the annoying glitches or anyone’s right to want a different or better feature set for their own music. Steinberg are in this for money too. But I also think that like music, an appreciation, if you like of how far this has come in such a short space of time is a good thing to have. As a writer, engineer and producer of my own work, I’m actually very grateful for the work Steinberg has done and that to me, the creative side of the program is still there. That - and of course stability - is actually more important to me than if a feature needs work.