Hmmmm, it’s very interesting to hear all the different perspectives. It’s also interesting how to some people this is not much money and to others it’s all the money in the world. I think Cubase is pretty much on par with the rest of the industry as far as price for their DAW.
I obviously don’t like the bugs either. And perhaps they should scrap the yearly release model and instead just release when they feel a release is warranted/ready. I’m kinda just used to adapting to the way they do it. They release in the winter around Black Friday/Chistmas and you have to wait a month or two until most of the major bugs are fixed. I understand that this has become the pattern, but I guess I’m just so used to it that I’ve just learned to deal with it. I feel like the yearly release model has both pros and cons.
If you’re a true professional, then $100 for an upgrade really isn’t that much. So I don’t mind the upgrade cost because it usually ends up making my work either higher quality or faster and more efficient. You just have to realize that if you buy it straight out of release that it will be buggy. I don’t know, I’m sure people will say I’m just settling for less or something or that my expectations are too low lol.
But I’ve used other daw’s and they all seem to have their own bugs and issues. Relative to other DAW’s, I don’t think Steinberg is doing bad at all.
I do think it would be very beneficial to have at least one official Steinberg employee watching/reading the thread meticulously and responding to everyone (and I mean an actually Steinberg employee who knows what is going on inside the company and not just a 3rd party moderator). I think it would really boost consumer confidence for people to know they are being heard. I think a lot of our fears as consumers and as people who participate in these threads and contribute ideas/feedback is that we are not even being heard at all. That’s how I felt around version 8.5-9, so I imagine that’s how some of these people are feeling now. I think it would go a long way.
But I don’t know Steinberg’s financials. Perhaps it’s just out of their budget. Or perhaps they’d rather take that money and invest in another programmer to help code… or some other position…
Totally agree. The trouble Steinberg have is they are constantly under pressure by users to implement x-y-z, and because they cater for so many styles of songwriter, engineer, composer, sound designer and producer, they inherently have a hard job trying to please everyone.
It’s not like Pro Tools (which is also a great product) that leans more towards mixing and tracking live audio than it does composing “in the box”. Or say Albeton or FL studio which are aimed at beat makers and electronic producers. They all let you do similar things but lean towards certain types of user.
Cubase is quite ambitious. Which is a blessing and a curse.
The customer supporter really does need work though. More so than the DAW.
Cubase is used to create music, like an instrument. But try playing the guitar, in which someone changes the order of the strings every few months. He will say that the alphabetical position of the strings is better and more logical. I have the impression that Steinberg’s programmers have recently worked this way.
$100 isn’t an issue at all, but I, for one, still use 8.5 for everyday purposes, while having 9.5 license. And I’m not really interested in 10 update, not because of money, but because chances are I won’t be using it anyway due to something wrong a new release would bring (everyday functions not working as expected etc.)
Since you live in the USA, did you ever call Steinberg instead of submitting a support ticket? The last time I called, I was speaking with technical support within a minute. It’s probably 20x more busy since the C10 release I never had any luck with NI support tickets either, but when I called them in LA my issues were resolved.
A lot of users over the years have been unjustly treated like an idiot. Mine was with MOTU about 15 years ago dealing with very arrogant Mac support when their MIDI TImepiece didn’t work properly with Windows. It took persistence and several calls, but the eventual result was a new driver build that made it work the way it was intended with a PC. 5 years ago I had a very difficult time via email support with Arturia. In both cases, my impression is support employees become disinterested because they get the same questions that can be answered in the PDF or in a forum, year in and year out.
Sad to hear about this from Steinberg.
Spending 10k, or actually “tens of thosuands of dollars” over the years with Steinberg products? Did you buy Nuendo over and over in the early years?
I hate it. I sold my 10 license to a friend and bought studio one 4.
It just offered more for what I needed. I still have 9.5 and will probably use it for certain things,
but 10 didn’t offer much for me other than snapshots and a few new headaches from problems that have still not been addressed.
(For what? years now)
+1 on every word. It may be good for those who just came into Cubase boat, but the ones who’s there for many years feel different.
I used to be Cubase fanboy and with each new update and efforts to contact support the passion is gone. And I’m still here, for the same reason, invested too much energy and money in this software and have not time to learn a new DAW.
I’m one of the guys who spend all my time in front of Cubase, Dorico or Sibelius … I think people get so tired of the lack of communication. I bought Cubase 10 right away, just to find that there had been some changes in the Key Editor, which I use all the time: - YouTube, but I don’t know how to get in contact with Steinberg to tell them, other than bring it up here and some few places more. But I haven’t heard a singke word from them. Nothing!
So we got better graphics on 4k monitors, new graphics on some plugs, better audio alignment, but the Key Editor thing just stops me from using Cubase 10.
So basically I spend 99€ on an update I can’t use.
Then there is this singing about the employees at Steinberg, that we should consider their feelings, when we flash our anger over all the bugs every new version introduces. Of course we have to communicate in an adult and polite way, but to me Cubase is a tool, and I make a living from this, so I will continue with holding the Steinberg staff accountable for the bugs these updates causes in my everyday work. And I will probably go on feeling that they couldn’t care less.
There are quite a few Steinberg employees at least reading and watching the discussions in this forum. But it is impossible to respond to everyone, join every discussion or give statements to development, product or company strategies. I hope that the last releases have shown that we listen, that there is a certain balance between introducing new features, improving existing functions, working on the usability and maintaining the performance and stability. Of course, not 100% of our decisions and improvements are perfect for everyone. But we are constantly reviewing our work and we take your feedback very seriously. Positive and negative.
Tbh I think it’s the other way around. I spend hours and hours working with cubase writing music for TV. I love when the new updates come out and I love seeing the changes. I work with other professionals who all feel the same way. If c10 isn’t working the way I want it to, I’ll just use c9.5 it’s no big deal.
Hey thanks, well I feel like a message like this every now and then goes a LONG way! I feel like if you had someone full time replying to comments on the forum you could at least get to half of the threads, but I can imagine that it is a lot to keep up with; especially right after a release.
btw, from what I’ve experienced so far, I think most of the bugs seem to revolve around the offline processing.
Agreed. I don’t think professionals vs hobbyists represents the demarcation boundary between people who are less or more willing to accept these kinds of changes… I think it just comes down to people in general with no regard to their professional vs hobbyist usage patterns. I work professionally with DAWs (and film and video) every day and I also like to see changes and progress, including in workflows that can help me save time and money for clients.
Obviously, if there’s a workflow that I love that has been vaporized, I’m not going to be happy about it, and there better be a good reason. But I’m 100% positive the developers are constantly trying balance out the issues to both streamline and retain old workflows. Steinberg has acquired a reputation for being bloated and complex, and rightly so over the years. So I consider it a great thing that they are trying to streamline and improve workflows. With something as huge as Cubase, it is a difficult task and they are bound to make a mistake on either side of the equation.
So in those cases where a personal pet workflow has been damaged by a so-called “improvement”, there are a handful of approaches we as users can take:
Not buy the upgrade until they change it – you can keep using prior versions… no need to upgrade if it makes your life terrible.
Buy the upgrade and learn the new workflows – and by this, I don’t mean just blindly accepting everything Steinberg throws at us, but just realistically take the bad along with the hopefully greater good and keep working… and if that doesn’t work, then roll back to option #1 or some other option…
Constructively complain and discuss in the forum, submit requests to Steinberg, etc., hoping that Steinberg is listening (which they seem to be doing better at recently) and hope they will provide a solution/compromise (sometimes happens) or even roll back a change (unlikely).
Bitterly or perhaps even rudely complain any chance you can get, in every forum, and tell all your friends, colleagues, and 2nd cousins how much Steinberg stinks and to never buy their software. This is unlikely to get much traction, but perhaps it’s a variation of option #3 and maybe something will get done… maybe not. And if it makes you feel better, go for it.
Use another DAW.
I’ve personally tried all the above approaches over the many years (although I tried to never be rude or disrespectful with option #4, just mainly venting, lol), and I’ve found that each approach has its benefits and drawbacks.
In the end, it’s just a piece of software from a company that wants to stay in business run by people who are just like you and me. They have lives and feelings, and want to be successful just like all of us. And in order to stay in business, they need your money. If they want to get your money, they need to listen and find a good balance and provide a good product. In order to listen more easily, they need to be able to see through the “noise” of all the complaints and criticisms – and basic human psychology tends to reject or filter out the emotionally-charged rants and favor the reasoned, persistent, calmly respectful comments. Just a fact of life.
Great response! Thank you, Matthias! Yes, I agree that overall Cubase 10 represents a positive development of listening to customers. Please keep doing so! It may be a field of landmines out here while you’re listening, but keep up the efforts, and keep going in the direction of Cubase 10. It is worth it. For some of us, this is a welcome development after many frustrations over the years. Of course nothing is perfect, but listening is the most important part of the process, and half the battle.
Thanks man! People don’t realize how amazing it is to pull off the coding that you guys do - people just see the GUI and think that’s all there is to it.
Negative comments are also because there is no trial version. The customer should be able to check before buying whether the new version is good for him. And now he must pay the money first and get a headache instead. This is not fair and causes frustration.
I never had any luck with NI support tickets either, but when I called them in LA my issues were resolved.
