Windows 10 - please do not upgrade!

Hello all,

We will release an official announcement later today but our tests have shown performance and timing issues with Cubase, Nuendo and Sequel on Windows 10 (build 10240) systems.
Also, the latest Quicktime 7.7.7 cannot be installed on a Windows 10 system which basically removes the video support in Cubase and Nuendo.
While these issues did not occur on all systems we tested with, we can only recommend to wait.

In addition, the Yamaha Steinberg USB and Firewire drivers also show issues with sample rate switches and thus are not fully compatible either.

More information will follow as soon as we know more.

Thanks so much for the warning. I had just been wondering about that! Much appreciated!

Quicktime 7.7.6 installs … but… not working on Nuendo…
Lets Wait a Bit :slight_smile:

Thanx for the heads up! :slight_smile:

I saw the warning on my Steinberg Hub. Thank you :thumbsup:
Best Regard,
Michel Blanchet

makes me wonder about the wisdom of choosing QuickTime for video playback…

Made me wonder that it worked as long as it did…Well, they gonna fix it, eventually…
But, in the days not everybody was happy when SB announcec QT for its video machine.
At the time I was quite pißed about QT, anyhow, for dropping the video overlay,
since it was working so well with Nuendo / Matrox cards for video Monitors.

Sercus, Big K

Quicktime 7.7.6 works perfect on my nvidia quadro based system…
There were no audio dropouts on wordclock…

In my opinion a new, clean win10 setup is inevitable. After an upgrade test from the latest win 8 my system has less performance!
Unfortunately, there is still the same nuendo 7 bug with the window management like on windows 8.1…

works great
Servus Martin

Not that I’m recommending this but…

Upgraded from Windows 8.1 64 bit to Windows 10 64 bit last night with zero issues. Nuendo 7 32 bit works fine with Quicktime 7.7.7 that was already installed.

no issues so far.

I have to say that it is extremely disappointing that Steinberg has not been doing effective testing for Windows 10 all along. What was Steinberg waiting for? A heads up after almost two weeks of Windows 10 being out is woefully inadequate. The current Windows 10 build has been out for more than a month. All the Steinies are saying “Thanks for the heads up” and other similar verbiage. I am saying “Why did Steinberg fail to have these issues resolved before July 29th?” We are all paying good money for Nuendo 7. It is a disgrace that Steinberg has not been on top of this issue since the Windows 10 builds were made available for the express purpose of testing. And of course why the surprise with Quick Time? I hope that this will be a quick resolution and not drag on for months as in the past.

And what about Microsoft?

That uses customer and developers to beta test?

What about Microsoft? The discussion here is Steinberg and Nuendo. Windows 10 is an OS. Nuendo is an application. The application must work with the OS not vice versa and that is why there is testing. Apple does not make sure that Nuendo works with its OS. That’s Steinberg’s job. Same situation with Microsoft.

It’s not that easy… let’s start with Quicktime. Version 7.7.7 was released not too far prior to the Windows 10 release and this was the first version which could not be installed on Windows 10. 7.7.6 works just fine. And this is actually a very good example. If we had started Windows 10 tests too early we would have announced compatibility only to take it all back last minute because a newer version/build of Windows (or Quicktime) broke everything again.

So what we did was running a large scale test with what we assumed was the released build of Windows 10 and we found issues. Issues our competitors have to face as well. I am not sure why no one else gave a warning that performance issues could come up but it might be related to the fact that we found something they did not find. There is something wrong with realtime audio operations in Windows 10 and Microsoft is working closley together with us to address this. Not because we screwed up but because there is a bug in the system. These things can happen and as with every other major OS upgrade one should wait before deploying it in a professional and productive environment.
Nuendo 7 works fine on Windows 7 and Windows 8.1 so what exactly is it that makes Windows 10 a requirement all of a sudden?

BTW other companies like Avid or Sony (for their Vaio computers) also do not support Windows 10 as yet.

I would like to offer a different point of view. I think that waiting, thoroughly testing the release build and not offering immediate compatibility with the latest and greatest operating system just released is more professional than saying “go for it” and cope with the aftermath later.

Please be patient, both MS and Steinberg are working on it.

Wrong. There is always a dialogue between companies like us and Apple/Microsoft. They do receive feedback from Steinberg and everyone else and address things on their end all the time. An application can only work if the preconditions are met.

I watched a video chat with Pete Brown from Microsoft. What a great guy, really knowledgeable and also a musician. He had really good things to say about Steinberg. Setbacks happen, let the guys do their job. They have our best interests at heart. The direction that Steinberg and Microsoft are taking is so positive, so I’m prepared to wait.

Keep up the good work guys!

There is no “wisdom” - Steinberge not feasible to completely separate Nuendo for Mac and PC, and now Nuage. For Mac computers QuickTime alternative - no. One shot of Steinberg decided to kill three birds with one stone. As a result, we have the stupid flat, half finger - oriented interface with variegated and unreadable buttons, labels, incomprehensible faded colours and confusing of windows in N7. Plus the need to almost constantly to convert videos to work in the program. Probably will soon release another Nuendo for Apple and Android phones, they have no time to adapt with the new W10 :slight_smile:

Thank-you Ed for your thoughtful and courteous reply. I also appreciate your candor with a peak behind the developer scenes. It is a shame that the RTM build was not available longer for testing purposes. If Steinberg and Microsoft were ‘in this together’ one would have thought that the problem in the RTM build would have been discovered sooner. Why did awareness of the issue surface within a couple of weeks after 7/29? From what you have written this problem seems to be a major audio processing issue and not just a slight bug.

I can agree that there SHOULD be a dialog between the OS manufacturer and the application developer. This dialog should be starting almost at ground zero when either side contemplates a major revision. Windows 10 has been available to developers with builds based on end user input for at least 6 months if not longer. I can appreciate that Steinberg would want to do aggressive testing late in the game since builds, as you say, fix some things and break other things. So how long did Steinberg have with the 10240 RTM build?

It is gratifying to hear that both parties are working aggressively on this issue. And yes, many vendors are still not certifying their drivers (MOTU big example) and applications for Windows 10. Perhaps the finger should be pointed more at Microsoft for not having the RTM build out for at least a month before public release. Then at least app developers and device manufactures could due their due diligence and report issues and get them resolved BEFORE the public release.

What to you think Ed?

Best regards,
Michael Peters

We have had enough time to test that build and to find this issue. Also Yamaha did tests prior to the Win 10 release and discovered issues with sample rate changes.
This all led to our recommendation not to upgrade until further notice. We also tested basic functionality with earlier builds but just like the customer feedback we have received so far, the issues do not occur on all systems and thus we did not find them back then. Even during the heavy testing cycle, we have had mixed results. It always depends on how you work and what kind of project setup you have.

Personally, I think that Windows 10 is and will be a great operating system as Microsoft put at lot of thought in the audio aspects of it. With many changes the risk of new issues coming up increases. But we are working on it.

Good to know. Another reason not to become an early adopter of W10. Safe and stable here on W8.1

Probably going to wait until the very last day W10 remains free before doing the update :mrgreen:

Probably I’ve been a bit harsh, but the real reason is that I’m quite upset about new OSs each year. Microsoft has even jumped Windows 9! I really think that a true reduction of costs in informatics should start from some international standard in OSs and interfaces. I don’t understand why we should have international standard in insignificant things like plugs and not in computer operating systems… :unamused: