xml import bug - two staff instruments

Hi,

I’ve come across something that must be a bug:
Dorico 2 crashes on importing an xml file from Logic Pro that contains a two staff instrument (piano).
I’ve tried all options within Logic to change this staff, no luck, it only works when I turn it into a single staff.

A year ago or so (must have been Dorico 1.1) I imported an xml from Logic with a piano part with two staffs and that just went fine!
So I tried it again with Dorico 1.2 and indeed that doesn’t crash, but it does turn the two staff instrument into one staff, also different behaviour then 1.1.

I’m quite stuck now … importing xml’s with single staffs works just fine, but my current project has a piano.
Would be glad to hear if there is any solution!

Thanks!

Figured something out!

If you don’t name the instrument ‘piano’, but something else (something that’s not an instrument name Dorico can recognise), it doesn’t crash. It will import and look like a one staff instrument. if you then change the instrument to piano in Dorico it becomes a two stave instrument. And with all the layout of the original preserved (which note in what staff and so on).

Took me quite a while to figure that out, but I’m glad there is a workaround. Bit strange though, that the word ‘piano’ in the xml-file makes Dorico crash (I literally only changed the word in the file with a text editor!). Hope people that are having the same problem find this info. And hope it gets fixed in a future update.

Cheers!

Funnily enough I have been in touch with the Logic team at Apple about this in the last week or two: they tell me that Logic will export a grand staff instrument in MusicXML properly in the next update, though they were unable to tell me when that update will be available.

Thanks for the reply Daniel!

I’ve summed up some tips about XML export in Logic and import in Dorico in a new post.
https://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=246&t=142485

Cheers,
Jos

2ndLuteSong.xml.zip (695 KB)
I have just installed version 2.1 Demo.
I imported an .xml file (and the same file re-labelled as .musicxml) produced by the Sibelius 6.2 Dolet 6 plugin.
It is a fairly complex Tenor & Piano song.
Dorico leaves the piano part empty, except for a few the first few notes, tuplet rests, hairpins, pedal signs, and extra text elements but only in the base clef. The Tenor part is perfect.

My file opens perfectly in Sibelius 6, in MuseScore 2 (with erratic paging), and in Finale 25 (but with pedal marks too high).
What am I doing wrong?!

Er, BTW how do I attach files to a post?

Vardaro.

Edit. I imported my file into Finale 25, and re-exported it in Musicxml 2.0, 3.0, & 3.1.
Imported to Dorico, these gave me a few more bits and pieces, still only in the bass clef; and still the wrong page jumps.

I travel with an XP laptop with Sibelius 6.2, and so for the moment I wanted Dorico mainly for its fabulous engraving in my Windows 10 desktop, while exploring its other functions. Worrying!

Add “.zip” to the end of the file name.

Thanks! Done.

I just checked. I think the numerous tuplets in the lute part are the culprit. When importing the file in Sibelius, I find very strange triplets (starting bar 2!)
I have noticed with my file that usually, tuplets can cause many problems with xml imports. I don’t see any satisfying solution, except for writing your lute part from scratch in Dorico — the tuplets will be properly input at least !

Thanks for your time, Marc!
I’ve tried different Finale 25 re-exports: ddt, xsd, v.2, 3, 3.1
Back to Sib6 with no problem (except system size) and very complete in MuseScore2
Yes, there are some cross’voice triplets!

De la part d’un Rosbif ex-pat (Val de Marne)…
2ndLuteSong_Cm.sib.zip (18.1 KB)
2ndLuteSong_Cm.sib.zip (18.1 KB)

Dorico is not particularly resilient to things like rounding errors in durations in tuplets in MusicXML files. It does not have the benefit of many years’ work on heuristics to try to eke out some meaning from MusicXML files that have various idiosyncrasies resulting from the specific way the exporting program is written. Also, Dorico’s unique approach such that music is not organised in bars at the lowest levels (barlines are imposed on top) also means that if some musical data goes awry midway through a part, it can be difficult to repair it and keep going, because it ends up never lining up with any bar divisions again.

Thank you for this.
Perhaps the problem was compounded in the numerous hidden rests, or the discontinuity of voices in my .sib file?

I deliberately chose a tricky file to test Dorico!
One day i should like to batch’-convert all my .sib files to import them into Dorico…

Here is another tricky one:
Only Finale 25 inserted the manual staggered barlines; Dorico and MuseScore just left the “real” long measure.
Falala.xml.zip (311 KB)
Falala.xml.zip (18.1 KB)
Falala.sib.zip (50.1 KB)

Ha!
I tidied up the first triplet in measure 2: a clear triplet in each voice, with all rests, then imported .sib from Sib6 to Sib2018 (demo), exported .xml (internal) to Dorico.
Note perfect to the end of the score, even the quintuplets! (But not one single beam…)

So I shall have to buy Sib2018 just to reliably convert all my Sib6 files?

Did you try tidying it up in Sib 6, exporting from Sib 6 to XML and then importing to Dorico?

Pianoleo is right: using dolet free plug-in in earlier sib versions does the job

Read up the thread Marc; the op’s already got the Dolet plugin in Sib 6.

I now have the latest Dolet 6.6 in my Sib6: same problems as the Dolet 6.0 that I used for my OP.
BTW, after installation the Dolet 6.6 plugin appears in the navigator ( user, roaming, Avid, etc) but not in the Sib2018 plugin menu (“extensions”, I’m in France).

I am not out of the inn (je ne suis pas sorti de l’auberge)!

I’m not sure whether the Dolet plugin is compatible with Sib2018; it might be. If so you may need to install it from within Sibelius 2018. If it transpires you get better results from Sibelius 2018 rather than Sibelius 6.2, and ALL you want to do is export a load of MusicXMLs, you might try taking advantage of their subscription deal. I think Sibelius Ultimate is now €19 per month - less if you qualify for educational pricing - and Sibelius (which is the cut down version) is now €5 per month.

I’m not a fan of Avid’s subscription pricing model but it does have its advantages: I’m likely to need Pro Tools for a week or two, and being able to subscribe for as little as a month means that I don’t have to ask myself if I really want to spend £600 on something I use very rarely.

Ha! (again)
I went back to the Sib6 file and replaced in m.4 the 8th in voice 2 by a dotted 8th in quintuplet.
Now my Sib6.xml imports perfectly into Dorico, with beams!
So I cannot have simultaneous tuplets and non-tuplets in two voices on the same staff if I want to go from Sib6 straight to Dorico…

Next I must try simultaneous tuplets and non-tuplets on different piano staves, then on different instruments.

Edit: straight half-notes in piano l.h. + triplets in piano r.h. and in tenor part work o.k.

To resume: a) My original sib6 xml export rendered well in MuseScore but exported a corrupt filewhich wouldn’t open in Dorico.
b) Imported (imperfectly) into Finale25, the output to Dorico was garbage.
c) The original Sib6 file opened in Sib2018 and exported to Dorico was complete but withot beams.

Perhaps the Dorico team can examine the (open source) xml input of MuseScore for the parsing of messy tuplets?

Thanks everyone, I think it was time well spent! I can invest in Dorico rather than Sibelius 2018, and still do my preparatory work on my XP laptop.

More edit!

I returned to my original Sib6 file an “filled” the two voices with rests in m.2, and replaced the eighth in m.4 voice 2 by a quarter. Now its Dolet xml imports to Dorico perfectly, in spite of simultaneous tuplets and straight notes.
2ndLuteSong_Cm_orig.xml.zip (697 KB)
2ndLuteSong_Cm_orig.sib.zip (94.1 KB)

May I resume our findings from another thread.
My Sib6 file has some tricky tuplets in one voice. To have a xml file (Dolet6.6) which was readable by Dorico, I had to leave all rests visible in both voices.

My previous version had hidden rests for clarity, and the resulting xml file produced garbage in Dorico, but useable display in MuseScore and Finale 25. However, MuseScore gave corrupt xml output, and Finale’s xml produced garbage in Dorico.
Another try opened the Sib6 file in Sibelius 2018, whose internal xml export was readable in Dorico, but with no beams…

I doubt if I am alone in using Sibelius 6.2, (I am too old to learn the Ribbon, and my laptop runs under Windows XP…) and so I am glad we have found a way to help Dorico parse this particular xml output, and benefit from the incredible new engraving options, while continuing the familiar convenience of Sibelius 6.
2ndLuteSong_Cm_orig.xml.zip (697 KB)
2ndLuteSong_Cm_orig.sib.zip (94.1 KB)

Maybe have a play with the MusicXML import preferences. Edit > Preferences > MusicXML Import.
You’ll then need to re-import the XML and see if it makes any difference.