Deeply desired: Finale's "Speedy Entry" inside of Dorico

[enchiriadis]

Dear developers,

since Finale’s sunset has been announced, I belong to the people who are “urged” to crossgrade to Dorico.
For background: I’ve written literally thousands of scores in nearly all sizes.

Well, even if Finale escorts me since the mid 1990-ies: I really do not consist on old habits, and I see plenty of impressive approaches to the problem of writing musical scores.

However - there is one fundamental thing: Could you, pleeease!.., implement the “Speedy Entry”-Method of Finale.

The Finale-like allocation from numbers to notes (5 for quaters, etc.) would be nice, but that’s probably habituation.

But for me, there is one crucial thing: I do not think in note-names as A-flat, G, f-sharp, while writing notes.
In Finale I have the cursor in or between the lines, and I know, that I need my note, where the cursor is placed. If fingers are on the Num-Block, I have the length. Everything is there.
When then being forced of thinking in note-names, then searching a letter G, A, whatever…, that destroys the line I have actually in mind.

With everything else I can live, but the entering notes without thinking about the tool is such fundamental, that I feel the need, writing you about that.

And I’m pretty sure, that I’m not alone with that. You could catch most of the “Finalists” out there by implementing this basic “Speedy entry”. It could be added as an option, one may switch On or Off in the preferences.

Thanks for reading and all the best!

Thomas

[judddanby]

@enchiriadis, you’re far from alone in having grounding in Finale’s Speedy Entry and wanting to find your best note-entry workflow in Dorico. Here are links to a few forum threads in which other newer users and a number of seasoned veterans of Dorico explore the matter. I think you’ll find some very helpful ideas.

Arrow Keys to Change Pitch - Speedy Entry

Like many here, I’m coming from 25 years of Finale. Since the launch of Dorico I’ve considered changing. Now that it is inevitable, I’m excited to learn and the advantages of Dorico don’t even need to be mentioned. It is a much more polished and modern product. Having that said, note entry is impossible. I can’t even explore the program, for the simple fact that I cannot enter any notes. Well, I can, but more like a random typing monkey. I’m a speedy entry user. I can’t understand why, even wi…

Speedy Entry???

I hope Dorico adds this feature. I need to be able to find the correct note or chord on the keyboard first and then press the duration to enter the note/chord. Dorico’s way is really slowing me down. It would be simple to add as an option and with all the people migrating from Finale it would be greatly appreciated.

Computer keyboard note entry auditioning -- play notes on input but not selection?

Using “pitch before duration” and the computer keyboard up/down arrows to select the pitch before adding a note by hitting the duration # (natively alt+up or down, but I switched some hotkeys – I love how easy it is to do that in Dorico). Admittedly, this is my attempt to recreate the way I used in Finale speedy entry. I have noticed other Finale refugees mention this also. I’m impressed Dorico is flexible enough that there is a way to do this. The issue is that I hear every note as I move the …

Welcome thread for Finale users

What is the Dorico equivalent of Speedy Entry in Finale? Play notes on the MIDI keyboard and press a key for a note length value. Does this exist? Or do I need to go back to my mouse to change a note length value?

Learning Dorico note entry with specify pitch after or before duration?

I’m a 30 year veteran of Finale on my day 3 of Dorico, which I am approaching as a whole new program, and I don’t need to continue my Finale ways in Dorico. I can already see that Dorico is a totally different animal. I will be inputting all notes with a MIDI keyboard. For note entry, I now understand the distinction between the original, “specify pitch after duration” and the updated, Finale Speedy Entry style “specify pitch before duration” and how to switch between them. There must have been…

[DanielMuzMurray]

Sorry to be so blunt but this topic has been brought up so much in the last month:

Speedy Entry???

I am a Finale user and I use Speedy Entry quite a bit for note entry. I’ve forced myself to use Dorico’s way of note entry since its launch but I’m not getting any faster at note entry. I even re-mapped the number keys to match Finale’s in an attempt to speed things up. That did help a bit, but I’m still struggling to match my speed using speedy entry. A small chart that would take me about an hour to enter in Finale, using speedy entry, takes me almost 2 hours in Dorico. I’ve read in a couple …

Learning Dorico note entry with specify pitch after or before duration?

I’m a 30 year veteran of Finale on my day 3 of Dorico, which I am approaching as a whole new program, and I don’t need to continue my Finale ways in Dorico. I can already see that Dorico is a totally different animal. I will be inputting all notes with a MIDI keyboard. For note entry, I now understand the distinction between the original, “specify pitch after duration” and the updated, Finale Speedy Entry style “specify pitch before duration” and how to switch between them. There must have been…

Arrow Keys to Change Pitch - Speedy Entry

Like many here, I’m coming from 25 years of Finale. Since the launch of Dorico I’ve considered changing. Now that it is inevitable, I’m excited to learn and the advantages of Dorico don’t even need to be mentioned. It is a much more polished and modern product. Having that said, note entry is impossible. I can’t even explore the program, for the simple fact that I cannot enter any notes. Well, I can, but more like a random typing monkey. I’m a speedy entry user. I can’t understand why, even wi…

Welcome thread for Finale users

I know everyone is feeling a bit shocked, and angry, and even a little bit frightened; and this can all turn to a panic that you need to convert 5000 files and learn a new program TODAY. First of all: there’s plenty of time to take stock of your current setup, and decide what you’re going to do. There are plenty of people still using ancient versions of Finale as it is – so the chances are that you can continue using Finale for a good few years yet. There’s also plenty of time to investigate th…

(A few times in this one)

[DanielMuzMurray]

@judddanby, for the last time please let the professionals reply first…

[Estigy]

Are there some new rules here? He did the same thing I was going to post?

[DanielMuzMurray]

He also did the same thing that I was going to post

It’s happened a few times lately between us and I was just joking.

[enchiriadis]

@DanielMuzMurray

Sorry to be so blunt but this topic has been brought up so much in the last month:

Guess why?!
Sorry, I’m relatively new here, and yes, I’ve seen the other threads right now as well.
However, I admit being glad, that so many people out there struggle into the very same details.
Thanks for the sources!

[judddanby]

@enchiriadis

Thanks for the sources!

Hope they’re helpful! There really are some gems of workflow wisdom from experienced users tucked in along the way worth studying and trying out.

[enchiriadis]

@judddanby

I think you’ll find some very helpful ideas.

Thank you for the sources! As far as I’ve learned so far, Dorico offers approaches, but preventing any letter-keys seems obviously not be possible. Except by using a MIDI-Keyboard. But that’s, for me, in most cases not helpful.

[judddanby]

@DanielMuzMurray

for the last time please let the professionals reply first…

For the first time, I’ll try to be more con-fessional going forward.

[Vadian]

My humble 2 ¢ (I’m also a “transitioner” after 30 years working with Finale).

After the first Dorico days thinking about how can I translate things “literally” to Dorico I decided to stop that. The only Finale legacy I kept is the music font, maybe I use Bravura later.

It’s never too late to teach old dogs new tricks. The “haptic-philosophy” of Dorico is indeed pretty different but in my opinion searching for workarounds to keep long time habits is fighting the framework.

Yes, it is arduous and will take a long time but I’m sure it’s worth it.
After three weeks I feel that I’m quite as fast as Finale with duration before pitch and the arrow keys to move and resize the items.

[enchiriadis]

@Vadian

After three weeks I feel that I’m quite as fast as Finale with duration before pitch and the arrow keys to move and resize the items.

Hi Vadian, may I ask, if I got your workaround right?
While working, you enter first any “ramdom” note, on which letter-key your hand may be, and corrects this note afterwards with with a couple of arrow-keys strokes?

[Vadian]

It’s actually not a workaround. I’m using a MIDI keyboard, I press the duration on the computer keyboard then the note on the MIDI keyboard and if it’s necessary to lengthen/shorten the value I use the arrow keys. Note input only with the computer keyboard is too slow for my needs.

[enchiriadis]

Ah, ok. Got you.
Well, so we all are different. 'Til now I avoided an MIDI-Keyboard for note-input. I’m rather slow in my musing on scores. So the slow computer-keyboard is principally perfect in my case.

[stutzmanj]

It’s been brought up a lot because it’s significant. If you are transcribing single-line music (not chords) on a staff with a computer keyboard, the up/down arrow key and numpad for duration is hands-down the fastest method. There’s a reason so many of us gravitated toward it in Finale.

“Just use a MIDI keyboard” is a non-answer. A MIDI keyboard is faster, sure. I don’t always have time to hook one up, though, or space to travel with one.

That said – as I’ve posted elsewhere, Dorico can already do this. Finale-style speedy entry with the up/down arrow keys can be done in Dorico in a way that is pretty identical to Finale’s with the exception of the way “auditioning” notes works during input (which is important when transcribing from a score, because the sound works as a check that you put in the right note without having to look back and forth). Finale plays the note only when you input it, while Dorico plays each note as you move the caret up and down the staff, then sounds again when you input it.

[Derrek]

Perhaps the answer to those without a MIDI keyboard at hand (especially if one does not know the letter names of the notes) is to take a leaf out of Alan Sylvestri’s book: enter all rhythms on one note. Then one can go back and use the arrow keys (w/ ALT/OPT) to raise or lower each note to its desired pitch and use the right arrow key to move to the next note.

[enchiriadis]

@Derrek

enter all rhythms on one note.

Did you try this while writing a fugue? Or a string quartett?
In my imagination your method may eventually work for jotting down an idea. Or at least a little song, if it is a simple one.
But of course, my imagination might be limited here…

[judddanby]

I found this method worked really well for the A sections of Jobim’s “One Note Samba.” Not too bad for Duke’s “C Jam Blues,” either.

[Pete_the_Musician]

Just thinking out loud here.
Warning: In the following, I may be confusing and conflating Finale’s Speedy Entry with Simple Entry!
There were many ways to use Speedy Entry in Finale.
So when people are asking for it, what they’re missing is a way to change the pitch of a note with the arrow-up and arrow-down keys, and to press the note duration number to both enter the note and advance the cursor to the next note.
Have I got that right?
If so, in Dorico, we would set it to “pitch before duration”. With a note selected, its pitch can be modified with the arrow keys (but you have to press Alt; any way of changing that?).
The tricky bit is to get the note duration shortcuts to also move the cursor forward.
But we have the “r” shortcut to repeat the previous note.

So all that’s actually missing in Dorico (IIUC?) is (1) a way to avoid having to use the Alt key to change pitch, and (2) a way to bind the shortcuts for note duration to the “r” shortcut, so that every time a duration shortcut is pressed, it would be followed by an automatic “r” keypress.

Is that right?

If so, couldn’t it be done with some app that assigns shortcuts? Or perhaps it really would not be that difficult to have a setting somewhere to add an “r” keypress after each duration shortcut?

[Mark_Johnson]

It seems to me that the strongest Speedy Note advocates are generally copying music by appearance rather than hearing it in their head as they write. As a copyist and editor for nearly 4 decades, I am very much against this, but I realize nothing I say will change people’s practices. My work has been appreciated by composers and other musicians because I do hear the music as I read it (silently), and thus I catch a lot of details that are not visible on a page, but make a difference editorially.

I have seen quite a few professionally published scores obviously prepared using Finale that have notes with ambiguous or missing or wrong accidentals – should this be E♭ or E♮ following the marked E♭ in the previous bar? Or (in earlier years) wrong-length bars. Dorico handles most of these things automatically by default, and can easily be overridden by a careful editor. But you have to read it to recognize the issue.

Finale’s Speedy Note is fundamentally ‘dumb’ and gladly accepts some bad notation – incorrect rhythms, incomplete or overfilled bars (I know, the big dialog …), ties misused as slurs, etc. And users have come to expect that over decades!

We can all do better. It took me quite a while to get used to alphabetic entry in Sibelius, before I got another midi keyboard, and I still use it when needed in Dorico. Finale converts never had that, so they don’t want to even consider it. (It can be pretty fast!) I’ve gone on too long; enough for now.