I’m currently organizing a comprehensive playback setup using endpoint configurations, and I’ve encountered a limitation I’d like to understand better.
It seems that Tuba and Contrabass Tuba are not recognized as separate instruments by Dorico when it comes to saving and loading endpoint configurations.
Whenever I save an endpoint for Contrabass Tuba, it gets saved as Tuba, and when I later load Contrabass Tuba into a new project, Dorico loads it using the Tuba endpoint instead.
I understand that I could manually save and load my own project templates, but that’s not the system I’m aiming for. I’m trying to build a systematic and scalable endpoint setup where I can call up different instruments as needed with clarity and precision.
For example, I’ve already mapped Flute 1, 2, and 3 to load properly via different channels on the same port, and it works beautifully — I’m very satisfied with that part.
So, coming back to the issue: I’d like to know if Tuba and Contrabass Tuba being treated as the same is an intentional classification within Dorico’s instrument taxonomy (perhaps because they’re part of the same instrument family?), or if this is something that might be improved in a future version.
Understanding the internal logic behind this would help me structure my endpoint system more effectively.
You need an instrument library containing separate patches for both tuba and contrabass tuba. The built-in libraries HSO and Iconica sketch don’t provide those. Neither Noteperformer does.
Also, see this thread from July 2023: Instrument not playing back all notes
to which I contributed, regarding the range of Euphonium and the various Tubas appearing to be the same.
Daniel’s answer was : “Yes, that’s correct. HALion Symphonic Orchestra doesn’t contain distinct patches for these instruments, so everything in your example project is using the HSO Tuba patch, except for the baritone horn, which is using the HSO French Horn patch.”
Thank you for your answer I don’t use Halion, I only use virtual instruments from kontakt and infinite series and spitfire audio. Still, are you talking about being influenced by the hso library system?
This thread might help. But I’m still not sure exactly what Dorico does when applying a playback template, and therefore how to ensure that what it does is what I want.
Although it didn’t appear in the video, the Contrabass Tuba single endpoint preset is already included in the Play Template, the Romantic Orchestra, which includes multiple endpoints that I created myself. But again, since Contrabass Tuba and Tuba are instrument definitions managed by Dorico and manage one instrument or instrument called Tuba, even if you store and manage separate instruments, you can set up different endpoints, and as a result, you can select and load the instrument with the priority of Tuba’s Endpoint.
The fundamental problem here has been identified: Dorico considers “tuba” and “contrabass tuba” to be the same instrument, the one being an alias for the other. I believe it’s common practice for “tuba” to be effectively a shorthand for “contrabass tuba”, and “bass tuba” to be the higher-pitched instrument. But it’s certainly not impossible that we are wrong.
I would prefer, if this could be changed. Bigger libraries from Spitfire, VSL and perhaps some other vendors have sample sets for both instruments.
In Wind Band and Brass Band Music there are often two tuba parts and it would be nice, if one could assign the higher part to the tuba and the lower part to the contrabass tuba.
Both instruments being which, though, Heiko? Bass tuba (fundamental F/E flat) and contrabass tuba (fundamental C/B flat) are the two instruments, are they not? And Dorico already distinguishes between them. But “tuba” and “contrabass tuba” are two different names for the same instrument.
Or, as I asked previously, are we wrong about that?
I looked at your answers and tested them first by dividing them into Bass Tuba and Contrabass Tuba. However, both were also recognized as Tuba, so I divided them into Tenor Tuba and Contrabass Tuba just in case. The endpoints were divided and saved, but when I looked closely, Tenor Tuba was recognized as Euphonium. Anyway, the Bass Tuba and the Contrabass Tuba seem to be identified.
Yes, got confused …
In Brass Chamber Music and many orchestral works, in Germany the Tuba player is likely to take the smaller F Tuba, which is the “normal” Tuba for most professional tuba players - at least in Germany. Therefore I think it would be better, to assign the “Tuba” to the Bass Tuba.
When we discussed the problem 18 months ago I didn’t realise that it arose because this was the team’s view. I wouldn’t presume to say whether the team’s view is right; but Spitfire appear to think they are different instruments, because they are separate patches in Studio Brass. Their tone is different but their range is identical, which (at least to me) seems odd if one is a contrabass version of the other. Maybe Spitfire recorded two tubas and just chose to call one of them a contrabass?
In the classical orchestra repertoire tuba means “a tuba”. In most cases the player decides himself if the bass tuba (in F/Eb) or the contrabass tuba (in C/Bb) is more suitable for the current piece. The criteria are the higher range and the timbre. Usually the bass tuba is preferred and due to the fourth valve the bass tuba is able to play down to the first harmonic which is the F/Eb below the low cello string. However in pieces like Humperdinck’s Hänsel und Gretel and Prokofiev’s Romeo and Juliet the contrabass tuba is preferred because there are lots of very low notes which need a profound voluminous sound.
Richard Wagner demanded the contrabass tuba explicitly in his Ring des Nibelungen because there is also a contrabass trombone which builds an ensemble with the trombones (a brighter timbre) while the contrabass tuba builds an ensemble with the Wagner tubas (a darker timbe)
