And yes the prices I get quoted may differ as I rarely buy a single unit of anything. We have ten sound studios and thirteen Nuendo licenses at the moment.
Well, here in the states, the prices almost seem like concrete! 90% of the dealers say call for quote, while the remainder show the $12K tag and itās consistent from dealer to dealer. When I priced one, they were only offering a break for a 32 fader+master set up. But even those spacers are being quoted at $1K for the small and $2.5K for the large and theyāre just spacers!!
I want it. Iād buy it in a second if I could justify the expense. The budgets Iām getting for whatever work I can even find now is laughable. My ONLY justification is, theoretically, how much easier and faster my workflow would be. I could concentrate on the project and stop fighting the gear, which is all I do with Eucon!
Every day itās the same crap. Will it start? 90% of the time it will now. That percentage used to be much lower. Will it stay connected to Nuendo? 85% of the time it will. That percentage also used to be much lower. Can I get to the end of a project without a major crash? 95 % of the time, yes. But ONLY IF I TURN OFF AVID CONTROL! If itās on, Nuendo will crash within minutes 100% of the time! Iāve lost count of how many times I just finished a project with just the keyboard and trackball because I couldnāt waste anymore time with Eucon interruptions!
THATāS my justification. But itās the only justification I can muster. IF Eucon worked with Nuendo and Avid actually TRIED to please their customers instead of RULE them, Iād be using a pair of linked S3ās with a Dock. But thatās a fantasy. So, the only option is to limp along with Artist Series and hope SOMEBODY will build a mid priced hardware system that will actually work with this platform.
You could consider going the MCU route and find an alternative for key commands and macros.
Itās not perfect, but my S3+Dock+Control is working at 90% for what I need. I can get around the Vca spill and the lack of hidden tracks for ex.
No crashing issues at the moment, but it really needs big improvements.
Also, the eq values seem to match both the hardware and software, no issues there also, but I tend to adjust dynamics with the mouse or, most recently, with the iPad.
I had an artist mix back then, I couldnāt get around it. Poor and unconfident faders for mixing large post sessions, sold it and got a Mackie MCU that I still have as a backup for any emergency.
Left the MCU for Eucon because I needed to control cue sends.
But yeah, hoping that the Steinberg Eucon implementation doesnāt go away or become even more buggy, especially if the alternative is a minimum of 12k for something that Iām pretty sure It will not improve that much the one I have with the S3.
M.D.
Thatās essentially what I said, it works 90% of the time. Thatās the most stable itās ever been. Having the EQ numbers match on the S3 is a huge improvement. They DO NOT MATCH on the Artist Series. I was more than willing to go for an S3. But I need more than 16 faders and they wouldnāt give them the linking feature that EVERY OTHER CONTROLLER in their lineup and all of their competition offers! Clearly, this was meant to force you to buy an S6. Thatās the only reason they could possibly have for omitting it! 
So, as I said, Iām limping along with Artist Series.
Hereās the thing. As I understand it. Eucon is essentially MIDI on Cat 5/6 cable, which is what offers the extra band with for all of the deep integration. Nuage has THEIR VERSION and Smart AV had THEIR VERSION. Why wonāt Yamaha just give us THEIR VERSION? Itās still MIDI. Just call it Super MIDI or āSparkā or whatever marketing comes up with. Nobody cares what you call it, as long as it works.
Youāre right about the Mackie/MCU protocol. That with Metagrid or X-Keys would definitely get you pretty close. Thatās why I was considering the Qcon Pro X for so long. I could get 25 faders and it follows EVERY MOVE Cubase made on screen! But youāre limited to programming only the F keys, which puts all of the programming onto other devices for the Key Commands. Now youāve got a serious ergonomic problem. Where do you put those other ESSENTIAL devices within easy reach and view without getting in the way of the āOfficialā Controller?
Thatās what so vexing. It CAN be done and almost everybody is doing SOME piece of it (Avid, Behringer, Mackie, Neve, Peavey, Presonus, Smart AV, SoftTube, SSL, Tascam, WK, Yamaha and on and on)! I donāt understand why SB is leaving this giant hole in the market with SO MANY POTENTIAL CUSTOMERS LITERALLY BEGGING THEM DAILY for a solution!
No Nuage is not using MIDI.
Accepted.
Iāll try to find more from the people involved. Iād really like to know what the real story is.
Although it looks increasely unlikely for us to meet at any convention in near future. If there will be one, that is.
Back to those virtual beers, I guess. Cheers!
I said āsome version of MIDI.ā I donāt care what you call it.
In the end I think Avid got it pretty right for my use case with the S3.
Despite the fact that the Nuage and S6 really look nice and expensive, I could not imagine going back to a desk where there is no keyboard and mouse. Both the S6 and Nuage use up too much space and would move either the console or mouse/keys too far off axis for my room size. Since a DAW is esentially still a computer software there will always be a lot of situations where these are the preferred human computer interaction methods for me.
Not for panning and volume rides for sure, but on the ProQ plugin I really think I prefer the mouse, for shortcuts the keyboard is unbeatable if you are a Ninja like we all tend to be.
So with a tight integration (in PT the iPad always shows the selected channel 
and you can hide/unhide channels, split (working) VCAs or show the active parameter lane with the click of a button) I am pretty close to my personal DAW control heaven.
I think the next step for me would be a programmable keyboard (like the Elgato XXL but larger and with more buttons) Do I hear you say Fairlight? I think that their concept is pretty amazing.
But tbh, for me this is then pretty much as complex as I want things to be, I think my sessinos are just not big enough to want more faders or deeper integration.
So, if you are on Nuendo and want to stay with it I guess you must either accept that the basic route (just faders and pans) or buying a Nuage are more or less the only resonable options at the moment. As Fredo stated Steinberg is unlikely to invest many resources into fixing EuCon or developing a mini Nuage. Itās a shame, since this has been request for many years now and there is clearly a demand by some, but Steinberg seem to be slightly trapped between a rock and a hard place with (many) Cubase users shouting for more and more bells and whistles and (at least some) Nuendo users wanting implementations that are geared more towards the pro end of the market, where reliability and quality of functions matter more than a gazillion of new plugins. In PT land you see the opposite, where āvanillaā users are unhappy with the lack of new functions and pros getting slow but steady improvenent and some deeply integrated stuff for the ultimate market only.
Bottom line:
If I was in Steinbergs Pro Audio product management I would ask myself if I could take the risk to invest into fixing my side of EuCon, at least to a point where it does not crash my app anymore. I donāt quite get why a mistake on the AVID side should crash my code. It could just not work, but a crash? How much work can it be to analyze and catch a bug that is reported by many users and where a 100% repro method exists? (at least that was the case with the ipad app and Nuendo when I left the platform).
While we are investigating all things automation here, has the initial parameter / VCA / Automation problem finally been solved?
Thank you, couldnāt said it better myself.
I also have an S3 plus dock and iPad on my studio, its not perfect, but it does 90% on Nuendo of what it does 100% in PT.
Some users are reporting a crash with PT Control when loading 40+ tracks in Nuendo, not having that issue at all, it all works like intended when I select the track on the Control app track tab.
I ocasionally do Post work on a bigger studio than mine, it has a full blown S6, its a big mixing stage, and I do not get any workflow improvements regarding my own setup. ( already posted on this forum my personal experiences regarding this subject).
Ive made an internal and personal study regarding Nuendo users in the industry around the world, and it showed that Nuendo is indeed gaining market from PT in the Game Sound Design Market.
Also, it showed that ALMOST EVERY Post audio engineer that works with PT, have worked with Nuendo and had a positive experience.( Hardware integration is the main reason Engineers stick with Avid nowadays).
Its not that uncommon to mix in Nuendo with an S6, and thatās where Steinberg s dropping the ball, even the Nuage seems outdated compared to the S6, working on Nuendo.
To conclude, if Steinberg/Yamaha want that Software innovation and sales without proprietary Hardware?! I advise trying to cultivate a good relationship with Avid, and not lose sight of the Eucon protocol.
M.D.
Absolutely my opinion!
It is / would be a win win for both, Avid is selling hardware and Steinberg users are happy to have a fully functional professional and affordable controller. Iām curious about the next Nuendo update if they fixed all these annoying EUCON bugsā¦ hopefully!
cheers
+1 - Huge need for a solution
Has the new update release of Eucon 20.5.0 helped are their any issues with Nuendo 10.
Regards
I do not have any issues with the latest Eucon version and N10.2.20 per se (crashes, freezes, etcā¦), except the known Eucon issues between Avid controllers (also the App) and Cubendoā¦
So my question is, did anybody already updatet to N10.3 and had a look if the mixer mirroring for example now works? Did they improve the Eucon adapter in N10.3? I didnāt find any indications in the version history, but maybe (HOPEFULLY) they changed something under the hood?
cheers
no - there is no change!
The app now crashes my Nuendo set up in 2 versions now, iPad and Android. The only way it seems to work, without crashing immediately, is on my Android PHONE. Even then, it might still crash.
This is nuts! 
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I just updated my new Samsung Tab A tablet hoping against hope that Eucon 20.6 would finally work. It didnāt. I started with an Empty Project and and added 16 MIDI, 16 Stereo and 8 Mono tracks. It crashed right after the addition of the mono tracks, which only took the count to 40! Thatās insane.
Anyone know it the Tango offers "Mirrored Mixing (hardware follows EVERY VIEW of the DAW)?
IIRC TheTa go was limited to 260 channels incl inputs/outputs/groups etc
Does that count include the extenders?
Sorry but I donāt get what you mean by āextendersā?
But if I remember correctly it is/was the max the meter bridge and thus the system could handle.
I meant the extra fader modules. In all the tutorials I watched, they referred to them as extensions of the master module. So, youāre saying that, regardless of having a 48 fader configuration, youāll still top out at 260 channels. Thatās what I was asking. Thanks.