Feature Request: ReWire/MTC

Dorico
1

Hey,

first of all, I got to say that the 2.2 update solved a lot of issues on the way to making dorico what I was hoping for it to be, great Job, keep it going!
Here is a feature request which would make Dorico the perfect program in my opinion. Here is how my setup works (or not i guess)

-I notate orchestral Parts in Dorico
-send Midi data via loopMidi to Studio One where it get’s mixed with audio, puts the midi into Kontakt etc.

This works perfectly while i notate but because the Programs don’t sync there is no way for playback from Studio One stuff and Dorico stuff at the same time. Notion 6 does not have this problem because it uses ReWire to sync with DAWs (Notion 6 isn’t nearly as good as Dorico though <3). I was reading some other posts and it said that you were aiming for a solution to sync up with cubase. Please don’t make us have to buy Cubase for this. Of course, it would be a nice treat for Cubase users if they had some extra features and absoluetly fair to give those to them by you because after all, you are company. But as someone who tried the Cubase Demo and just didn’t like it tbh I really wish for some features in upadte 2.3 like ReWire.

It’d be lovely if you could answer, I have read from a lot of people in all kinds of forums that they are just waiting for this. I understand that you have all kinds of schedules but if we could just get access to send to and recieve from the midi clock, that might already give enough room to create a workaround. I’ve spent the last two months trying to get a whole setup in Dorico standalone but I had to accept that it’s a noation software and not a DAW. Now I’ve found the perfect mix and all that it takes from here to success is some kind of tempo sync with Studio one. As a Student it’s simply hard to afford all these programs even though I work as a waiter on the weekend and it’d be so awesome to be able compose music on an orchestral level with such an easy workflow without having to buy Cubase.

Sincerely, Leander <3

1 Like
2

Welcome to the forum, Leander. We don’t have any concrete plans for ReWire or MTC/SMPTE sync, i.e. I can’t tell you when these will be implemented, but they are definitely in our plans for the future.

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Leander,

I’m not familiar with Studio One beyond a few quick sessions with a limited demo, but I have an idea.

First, can Studio One be a ReWire ‘Slave’?

If so, you ‘might’ have luck with this plugin:

Another option, if Studio One can sync to SMPTE, is to run a SMPTE timecode track in a valid video wrapper that Dorico’s video player can play, and have your DAW sync to that.

If your DAW cannot generate a stripe you can grab one here:
http://pehrhovey.net/blog/2013/07/el-tee-see-make-smpte-timecode-wav-file/

Once you have a stripe the length you desire, mux it into one of the video formats that Dorico can play. Get creative in finding a way to wire the signal into your DAW. One could use ReaStream if it must be done digitally or over a network…or just use true audio patch cords.

If I get a chance over the weekend I’ll try to pop in with a step by step on how to do the SMPTE sync.

4

Out of curiosity I dug into an analog SMPTE track cludge for Dorico running in Dorico’s video player.

I’m not sure about Studio One, but with my Cubase rig (Windows 10) it seems to go something like this…

More modern versions, and current audio/MIDI interfaces typically don’t support feeding an analog SMPTE signal straight into Cubase these days. My bad…I’ve still got quite a bit of old kit laying around so it works for me, but it does require a box of some sort to convert the stripe into MTC that Cubase can sync with.

Here I’ve got a classic Anatek SMP-7 MIDI patch bay with analog SMPTE conversion to an assortment of MIDI clock types that does the job, plus half a dozen ways to generate such a thing with my old Ataris and Steinberg or Emagic dongles. Sorry, I had not realized modern DAWs on Windows machines can’t just take the stripe from any old audio input and sync that way.

Ooops. The good news is that I was able to do it without much fuss using the Anatek Box.

  1. I grabbed a stripe from the website I posted above to save myself waiting to generate my own in real time.

  2. I opened a bog standard version of Nero Video, drug my time code into it, then exported it as mp4 with aac audio.

  3. I have Dorico set to use the built in audio interface on my motherboard, and set to use a silent instrument profile, with MIDI going through virtual MIDI ports. I drug my super black time code video onto the Dorico play tab, and adjusted its settings to match up with the type and start time of my timecode.

  4. An audio patch chord goes from the Dorico audio interface into the Anatek box, which generates MTC and sends it into my PC through the Delta 1010.

  5. Cubase gets my nice Pro Audio interfaces (Delta 1010 in this particular case) to do its thing. Dorico and Cubase transports lock up and run tightly in sync…at least with the 5 or 6 minute score I ran through it. If I stop/start/cue about in Dorico, Cubase transport follows as expected.

So…if you’ve got a little black box…or perhaps can find some LTC to MTC software that works with your PC configuration…it might work for you if it’s something you really want ‘now’ without waiting for an official Dorico generated sync source.

When I get a chance I’ll look into possible software solutions that might work with any ole audio card and MIDI interface in tandem on a PC.

So far I’ve found a couple for Macs…but not Windows (Perhaps an instance of Reaper in the background can do it for Windows without extra hardware). I’ll try to update here if I find anything reasonable and solid for Windows.

Mac LTC to MTC Stuff
https://sononum.net/smptereader
http://figure53.com/lockstep/

5

REWIRE would also be a great feature for all other DAWs. I have always used Logic Pro X and many projects can not move them even using XML (it would take too much work and it would not make sense). However, LPX has no great layout possibilities as a specific software like Dorico offers it. So, the Rewire, which I currently use with Sibelius, helps me with the main parts, while the audio project stays on LPX.

6

@ Brian Roland
I find your solution very judicious :slight_smile:

For the sake of completeness in case someone is trying to do this on Windows, Videotoolsheld made a not too expensive LTC-MIDI reader/converter for Windows and Mac:

1 Like
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Just a quick note, if one of the developers is reading this:

I would also greatly appreciate having ReWire support in Dorico.

I would love to be able to notate parts (guitar & bass as tabs, piano & keyboard as midi output ) in Dorico 3 and record and/or playback them in Logic.
Currently, I am writing in Dorico, print the tabs to PDF and export the MIDI and then open that in Logic. This works, but makes changing notes in the score cumbersome.

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+! for some kind of synch with DAW. I’m working on a score where there is a lot of spoken word in the performance, and I’d love to be able to record some of the narrative and play it back in real time alongside Dorico, so I could hear how it fits together and cut my arrangements accordingly. I’ve seen the workarounds using video but that would be far too cumbersome. I need to be able to simply record the dialogue, whilst Dorico is playing, then if needed I can cut and move phrases around. Eventually I’ll add the narrative as text (is there a way to add lyrics unattached to notes in Dorico?) based on the trial and error of placement, would save a lot of time if Dorico would sync to my DAW.

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Hi! Below is what I managed in case anyone wants to do the same and it isn’t documented elsewhere.

I’m a big fan of Plogue Bidule and once again this has rescued the situation but it’s so hacky it’d be amazing to have something like Rewire out of the box. I found a few posts mentioning Bidule but not directly a sync → clock explanation. Having a ridiculous setup with far too many MIDI cables and DAWs (plural!) I thought I’d give this thing a go and it was surprisingly easy:

Dorico
Bidule running as an instrument (maybe an effect would work too?)
Inside Bidule put in a Sync to MIDI Clock bidule (sync it to the midi in coming from the Dorico instrument)
Put in a MIDI output from LoopBe1 or any other internal MIDI loop-back software
Send the MIDI clock to this

My proof of concept was getting a Renoise track to play along to a Dorico one, but will ultimately be channeling things to Max and other software and a hardware sampler. Unfortuantely, I don’t think external → Dorico would work which would be the next step. Getting my Hardware sampler controlling Dorico would be beautiful.

Any tips on making this setup even better / easier would be much appreciated while we wait for Rewire.

1 Like
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I use Bidule as well. As far as I know it cannot generate MTC…I.E. to send out via virtual port to drive the transport of a DAW.

What I can do…is use a sync bidule to get a sample count and lock that up with audio files playing directly in Bidule. That allows me to have samples start at any point in a score I want based on the audio sample count, and thus pretty much matches the Dorico transport. It works pretty well for things like…taking a song and syncing it up for transcribing.

So yes, I can load up an instance of Bidule somewhere in Dorico, and lock audio-file-player bidules to the Dorico transport. Here’s a link to such a bidule layout: Dorico Tracker - Plogue.com

Dorico doesn’t yet have a way to pipe an interface audio input into the sound matrix (annoying because I’d like to run my outboard synths through the Dorico mixer)…though it is possible with a hack such as ASIO4ALL + jack2 + reastream and a second audio card or a usb mic so this is not really conductive to trying to work with mics in real time in conjunction with Dorico; however, it does come in handy if you just want to sync up some audio files with Dorico’s transport. It can also come in handy if you want to render some of your VST performances to pure audio tracks in order to free up some processor resources for new VST staves/tracks.

What I have NOT found a way to do is somehow convert that sample count into MTC. One can send simple MIDI clock ticks I believe, but that’s just not enough to drive the transport of a DAW in a manner that keeps it synced as you peek and poke around in a Score, starting and stopping it from different places while you work, etc.

Plogue does offer a dev kit if you’d like to take a crack at making something that can use the sample count as a reference and send out MTC. Email the folks at Plogue and ask for the Bidule Dev Kit if you’re up to trying to code your own custom bidule(s).

1 Like
11

Hi there

Does anyone know if BlackHole is a viable routing option in place of ReWire for Mac Users? I’m not quite sure how it works, as the only ReWire module I have used is Melodyne Assistant within Studio One 4.6.

Thanks

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Blackhole only wires audio; I assume that syncing clocks is actually what people need when they request ReWire.

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Hi all Dorico folks!!
I just jumped on this great program. Coming from Sibelius → Finale (+ Notion as being a Studio One user and also writing on iPad) → and now finally on Dorico.

I would also love to have Rewire implemented in Dorico. It’s such a great important feature!!

I often arrange for horn section, and usually asked to write an arrangement to an track.
My workflow has been starting in Logic/ Studio One, writing the hornparts all on one track. Then export midi (or xml from Logic) to Finale etc. Making the music nice notated to be played here, phrasing and dynamics.
To be dead sure the score fits the track, I’m syncing the score via Rewire from the DAW. Great and very fast for entering double bar lines the RIGHT places, and not waisting studio time figuring out what has gone one bar wrong and when…

Best regards,
Pelle Fridell

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Welcome to the forum, Pelle, and thanks for your feedback. We can’t say for sure when a sync or ReWire feature will arrive, but we certainly know that this is important to our users and we do plan to address these requirements in future.

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The easiest way:

Put a video into dorico, with timecode as sound. ( make this with i.e. Nuendo and put the timecode generator on a track).
Output this i.e. output 8 on you soundcard. Wire this one back into input 8.
Send this audio as an input to a program called Lockstep. This will then convert it to MTC that cubase /Nuendo can read. Then you have sync from dorico as master…

https://figure53.com/lockstep/

1 Like
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I am currently looking at moving to Dorico, and I have the trial version installed. I am quite impressed with how it sounds, and how short the learning curve is because of its intuitive design! I also just read how you guys - who created Dorico - were the original creators of Sibelius! I used to love Sibelius. It completely makes sense to me that I really like Dorico!

I do really wish that Dorico had ReWire capabilities because it makes it so much easier and intuitive to integrate live solo players into a virtual instrument arrangement. If I can find a work-around that is not too convoluted or “hacky” I will gladly switch to Dorico and await the implementation of ReWire - or whatever sync option Team Dorico decides they will implement. You guys are geniuses!

Anyway, if anyone has a suggestion for a work-around that is not too involved that would be awesome. My current setup (using the Dorico trial instead of Sibelius) is to pipe the sounds for each instrument in Dorico through MIDI using LoopMIDI (thank you, Tobias!), and then route LoopMIDI into Reaper, where I load my virtual instruments onto separate tracks. I saw that someone mentioned using SMPTE time code to sync playback, but I currently do not have any experience using SMPTE because I don’t currently do video work. Is this a stable and easy to use solution?

The main advantage that I am looking for is the ability to be able to change notation on-the-fly without having to record audio from the notation’s performance prior to running a new live take. Also, for post-editing, it would be helpful to know that I would be able to make changes to the notation and still have it be in sync with the recorded soloists.

Thanks so much for your work on Dorico! -and thanks to the great community here too!

-M

17

Hi, I am really excited about Dorico! I recently downloaded and installed the trial version of Dorico 3.5.

My background is that I started with Finale when I was a music composition major in the 90s, and then I discovered Sibelius 5 in the 2000s and loved it! It was so intuitive and easy to use! Then Avid acquired Sibelius, and after a few revisions, it was no longer as quick and intuitive for me to use - plus, the whole licensing model is not something that I want to deal with.

[I believe that if I buy a piece of software, that it is like buying a piece of physical equipment - I expect to be able to use it for its life-cycle, or until I am ready to get a newer piece of equipment. If I wanted to rent a piece of equipment, then I would do that instead - I mean, if I had to rent my guitars, that would be extremely inconvenient! :p]

Yesterday, I discovered Dorico! It is so easy and intuitive to use, that I was able import one of my scores from Sibelius, add my EWQL and VSL sample libraries to the instruments in the score in Dorico, and even alternately configure playback to reroute those instruments through LoopMIDI to my DAW where I can load EWQL and VSL! I was pleasantly surprised (but it makes total sense) that you guys who created Dorico, were the same guys who originally created Sibelius!

You guys are geniuses! Thank you!!

Anyway, I am seriously thinking of switching to Dorico! The only hold up for me is ReWire - because I want to be able to work with live tracks without having to render my notation to .wav files every time there is a change in my score.

I’m pretty certain that in the pre-MIDI days, that there was a lot more scoring done by hand. I don’t know what to work flow of the Mancinis and John Barrys were like, but I think perhaps that after MIDI, scoring took on a different kind of process where MIDI performance took the lead over scoring by hand. Now, with the improvement of advanced scoring capabilities via Dorico, and VST3 expressions, etc, in my opinion, scoring is entering into a digital renaissance! This means that more people will be apt to actually score using notation software as a viable and time-efficient method in comparison to using MIDI performances to score. I have noting against MIDI performances, but, personally, I like to look at my harmony and counterpoint using notation as at least one layer to my compositional process, and now, notation software like Dorico makes being able to do this, while still being able to recreate the feel of a live performance even more viable!

I am really sold on Dorico, but before I commit to a switch, I would like to know if anyone has worked out a reasonably easy way to sync Dorico with a DAW, pending the addition of ReWire or some similar sync-ing feature addition. I did see some people referring to some arcane sounding SMPTE work-arounds, but I am not sure that I understand how I would set something like that up in a clear step-by-step way. If anyone would be willing to help or post some instructions on how to work with SMPTE for a sync to a DAW, I would be very grateful – and I would be likely to make the switch to Dorico now.

Thanks so much - it is a pleasure to meet you all!

-M

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Please, Can you show a Video tutorial how you make it

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Reastream might be worth a look. It can broadcast both audio and MIDI over the LAN to other ReaStream plugin instances, or one can set it up only work locally on the hosting machine. I’ve had pretty good luck with it on my rig.
https://www.reaper.fm/reaplugs/

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Rewire support would be okay, but far from perfect. Sibelius has rewire support and is a nightmare to sync with any host daw. Typical problems are massive swings in timing, rhythmic inaccuracies, hanging notes, a failure to start, and many others.

I would go further to request direct native support of time code, the same as we typically find in most pro DAWS. My reasoning for this is that with native time code support Dorico would be able to be used in pro studio setups where different powerful machines are being used for different functions (video-editing/audio-mixing/scoring-sound playback). The ability to make changes directly to the score without having to go through the arduous process of making the change in one software, exporting to another, exporting audio, importing audio to the daw and then realizing the change is not quite right and thus having to do it again, would be amazing.

The inclusion of a fully featured timecode engine and the ability to chase time code would truly make Dorico a go to for scoring professionals. The inclusion of a button with internal and external sync would be a game changer. I would absolutely dump Sibelius if that were the case.