I just want to make sure I’m rendering correctly. I have a montage of 18 clips ready for CD. All are 48 Khz 24 bit. I have done the EQ and compression on each clip and meta normalizer. I have also engaged the re sampler to 44.1 and the dither to 16 bit at the master section. At this point I thought I could create a DDP 44.1 / 16 bit file. BUT the DDP file was not at 44.1!! I think I need to FIRST render the complete montage to a 44.1 /16 bit file … Then import that file after render, bypass master , THEN create a 44.1 /16 bit DDP from that file. Is this the correct procedure? I thought with my 48 Khz 24 bit montage I could BOTH render to 44.1 and create a DDP file… That will not work. Please let me know what to do when your montage is high sample and bit and you need to render that montage to a DDP 44.1 Khz 16 bit… ALSO how can I check the DDP file for proper Sample rate to make sure… Many thanks
Check this answers…
I don’t think you can create a DDP that is anything other than 44.1k in WaveLab. I believe SoundBlade had a high-sample rate DDP option but you needed their special DDP Player to listen to it. The DDP (and CD) spec is 44.1k can so basically, a DDP can only be 44.1k. It would be interesting to know how/why you think your DDP is another sample rate.
If your montage is higher than 44.1k sample rate, you should receive the attached message when you try to create it.
When you do create the DDP, you can test it a few ways:
Steinberg has a free DDP Player that lets you open the DDP to test it. I personally prefer HOFA DDP Player Maker so my clients can easily test the DDP and burn a CD if they care to. The Steinberg DDP Player is too basic for my needs and preference, but it technically does work and is free.
You can also import the DDP back into a new WaveLab Audio Montage and check everything there. See other attachment.
To comment on other things in this thread, I personally prefer to lock in all the plugin processing at the highest sample rate and floating-point bit-depth by rendering the montage as one full file first, and then work my way down from there. This way I can get high sample rate WAV files of each song, 44.1k (24 and/or 16-bit) WAV files of each song, mp3s if needed, and a DDP while only having to do the full render with all the plugins one time.
The render with plugins can take awhile and some 3rd party plugins can have rendering issues so I like to do the render with plugins just one time, inspect it, and from there, I can use Custom Montage Duplicate to get additional montages at different sample rates for rendering files and these renders go FAST because no plugin processing is needed anymore aside from a dither plugin.
I do not use the Resampler in the Master Section method.
You don’t have to do it my way, but that is just my preference to break it up into a few smaller steps to be able to monitor things more closely and also, only do the longer render with plugins one single time.
Sorry about all this confusion… and thank you for your expertise… To clarify… when you have a high sample rate montage, you must render to a 44.1 file… then from that file make a DDP. It’s a 2 step procedure. Is that correct??? Am I correct that you can’t just create a DDP for a High Sample montage… You need to FIRST render that montage to a whole file, then import your rendered file, then create a DDP. I mistakenly thought I could render a DDP from a 48 Khz montage…can’t do that…
You can render a DDP from a 48k montage, but you must enable the Resampler in the Master Section, set it to 44.1k, and then it’s recommended to add dithering in the Master Section AFTER the Resampler, and consider adding a true-peak limiter after the Resamlper but before the dithering. This is what the “Final Effects/Dithering” section is intended for.
It mentions this in the screen shot I shared.
With this approach, you can render a 16-bit/44.1k DDP from a 48k montage in one-step.
I just prefer to do my rendering in more than one step because it allows more flexibility for rendering additional formats, checking the plugin processing which I only need to do one time for all formats, and using RX for Resampling instead of what WaveLab uses, not to mention having to manually save and load the master section settings with the montage file because the Master Section is not part of the Audio Montage settings by default.
Thank you Justin for the answer. I must have had the master Resampler off. Another question… Now if order to actually hear the result of resampling and dither you must render first … correct? Can you hear the result of the file by just having the master re sampler set to 44.1 and dither enable??. I would think that would be impossible.
You can monitor the Resampling and the following limiting and/or dither in real-time. Your audio interface should be able to confirm that you’re hearing playback at 44.1k when the Resampler is active in the Master Section, and the Master Section is active.
I’m not sure how good of quality the real-time Resampling is compared to the setting you can choose in the WaveLab Preferences (see attached), or Batch Processor settings.
That said, I never trust that what I hear on playback is 100% going to be what happens upon rendering, especially when 3rd party plugins are involved.
There are more reasons that I have time to explain about why I prefer to do the render at 48k first to lock in the plugin processing and work my way down from there, but if you need to create a DDP from a 48k montage, you can do it.
I like to confirm everything rendered correctly when it comes to any inter-montage plugins, markers, etc. and I like to only do the long plugin render one time so that the rest of my renders of WAVs mp3, DDP, only requite a dither plugin and go very fast.
The method I use also allows me to inspect the downsampled version and know if any peaks over 0dB were created from the resampling and decide if I need to address them or not.
Thank you again Justin… interesting… Yes, upon your instructions I did render to 44.1 with my 48Khz montage… …
So, YOU only render the “main” montage with all the plugins from each clip and output and all the meta data at the highest rate without the dither ONCE. Now you are now working with ONE file, not the montage. You then load that file and render any combination you need… However you would still need to use the re sampler for CD, and of course dither … Am I correct? You then work with only one rendered file not the main montage …
If you have time to watch this livestream, it might make more sense:
There are many ways to do the same thing in WaveLab but it’s my preference to do it this way:
- Dial in the montage as needed as far as editing the clips, using Clip FX for per-song plugin settings, and Montage Output FX for anything global like a final limiter. I don’t do any dithering at this stage.
I also add the track markers, name everything correctly, add ISRC (when available), etc. Once everything is just as I want it, then I start rendering.
- I first render the entire montage as one long file to 64-bit float and the native sample rate which for me is usually 96k.
I use the Render Setting that tells WaveLab to create a new montage from the resulting rendered file. Then I save that as a new montage. I also use a setting that copies over all the track makers, info, data, ISRC, etc. so I don’t have to enter it again. It’s automatically populated.
At this point, all the plugin processing is baked in at the highest sample rate, and floating point bit-depth so from here, we can go anywhere. It also allows me to verify the plugins rendered correctly.
In this new montage I add a 24-bit dither to the montage output which allows me to render 24-bit/96k WAV files.
To get to 44.1k, I use RX Batch Processor (WaveLab Batch Processor can work too) to resample the initial floating point 96k WAV down to floating point 44.1k. Again, this is a long file of the entire montage.
Then with the rendered version of the montage open, I use “Custom Montage Duplicate” and point it to the resampled 44.1k file so that WaveLab recreates the montage (and all markers, data, info) at 44.1k.
This allows me to inspect the downsampled file to make sure it sounds OK, isn’t missing any data, and decide if I need to address the peak-level change by adding a true-peak limiter.
In this new montage I can render 24-bit/44.1k WAVs or I can change the existing dither plugin to 16-bit and render 16-bit/44.1k WAV files of each song, mp3 files of each song, or a DDP.
It’s more steps and a lot to write but it’s very fast in practice and allows for more control and oversight of what’s going on as opposed to using the Master Section Resampler and letting it fly.
In addition, you have full recall of all plugin settings used because you don’t have to save/load any Master Section settings along with the .mon file.
Other benefits include only having to do the long render with all the plugins one time, and the rest of the renders go FAST because only a dither and occasion true-peak limiter plugin are involved.
It’s more a bigger picture approach to rendering any and all formats of an album.
The only time I have to go back to the main montage and deviate is for making vinyl sides, instrumental maters, and clean radio edits.
Thank you Justin, I’ll give your procedure a try