Nuendo - multitrack audio sync to 2-track? Possible?

Nuendo
1

Hi!

I’m not sure whether this is the right forum section, but I’ll ask anyway. Perhaps someone else has encountered the same problem. :slight_smile:

I work on the post-production of a TV show featuring a live band and spoken segments. We record it using six cameras, with each camera recording its own video onto a separate memory card. The camera footage is then combined during video editing.

I record the audio as a multitrack session through a Behringer Wing directly into my MacBook Pro running Nuendo 15. I usually record between 16 and 32 individual channels, plus a stereo track of my “on-the-fly” mix.

Because the recording is stopped at random points and the order of the programme segments is frequently changed, the Nuendo project naturally becomes very fragmented.

After the recording session, I give the video editor my stereo on-the-fly mix, which they place underneath the video. Their editing software can sync my audio to the camera footage almost instantly, because every camera also records the ambient sound. It then automatically replaces the camera audio with my on-the-fly mix.

And this is where the problem begins…

I receive the final edited video from the video production team. For example, three hours of recorded material may be edited down to a final programme of around 50 minutes.

I then have to manually cut up my entire multitrack recording and synchronise every individual section to the edited video—or to my stereo mix, which the editor has used in separate pieces.

My question is: does Nuendo have any function that would allow me to import an AAF, OMF, EDL, or another type of file containing the edited version of my stereo mix, and then automatically conform or synchronise the original multitrack recording to it?

In other words, if the editing timeline or cut information is stored in the imported file, could Nuendo use the same timeline to cut and rearrange the entire multitrack session automatically?

I hope I have explained the situation clearly enough.

Thank you very much for your help! :slight_smile:

By the way, if this function does not currently exist, I would strongly recommend adding it to a future version of Nuendo. :slight_smile:

2

Most important question is: is there any metadata present?

If not, then it is a manual job. (In any DAW)

To my knowledge there is (only) one specific tool that can save you.

HTH

Fredo

3

Huh, I hadn’t heard of Matchbox before. Thanks!!

As for my original question, what I mean is this: If we have a multitrack recording—for example, 30 tracks of the same length—and we cut up one track, rearrange the sections within that same track, shorten it, and so on, is there a function that would automatically make the exact same cuts and rearrangements on the other 29 tracks from the same project?

That’s all I need. :slight_smile:

4

As I said, if metadata is available, there are several options.

However, without metadata—specifically, knowing exactly when the original file was recorded and where it belongs on the timeline—you cannot determine this reliably.

Furthermore, without a master timecode clock feeding all your recorders, the audio will not remain perfectly synchronized; it will gradually drift out of sync.

Fredo

5

Is your on the fly mix continuous, or fragmented as well? If continuous, don’t stop and start your DAW during recording. Punch in and out using the record button. Later import your on the fly mix. Chop up each song/scene and group all clips together for each song. After importing edited video, lock the video track and accompanying audio track. Align one group at a time referencing your on the fly mix from the video edit to your on the fly mix already in the DAW.

Still some work, but do-able. You might be able to auto-align each group using software but I haven’t tried that.

6

There is a function in Nuendo that you could try to use.

If you’ve used BWAV for your recordings and for the downmix, that you’ve send to the editor, and if you still have your session exactly the way how it was when you send it, then you could ask for an EDL export of just these tracks newly edited. In theory you can than load this into the Reconform panel as the change EDL - The source timecode should be your original session and the destination the new edit. This way it could automatically Reconform all the original tracks in your session.

7

Yes, forgot to mention BWAV. A savior for work with video.

8

At the risk of making you life worse I have dealt with this ( multiple cameras, stereo mix, and individual tracks ) by either

1: combining /syncing the Stereo mix and individual tracks as a multitrack audio file outside of the NLE, ( then import to the NLE)

or

2:combine and sync the stereo and individual tracks inside NLE as a Multicam clip or similar.

In either case the Video editor can then mute the individual tracks and edit to the stereo version. However because the steero file and individual tracks are synced the edit cuts both.

Then an AFF export should bring all the audio into Nuendo, where you can mute the stereo track and work on the accompanying individual tracks.

It is actually surprisingly little work up front, and in my experience everything syncs up nicely without having a distributed timebase running ( which of course is a better solution! )

9

That would be one option, and it’s something I had considered as well. If I understand you correctly, the video editor would edit the multitrack audio together with the video and then export everything as an AAF?

The problem is that the amount of data transferred to him—although he only needs it for the cuts—and then back to me—since I’ll need the full multitrack—is enormous.

That’s why I was hoping this could be done using just one track from all the recorded tracks. Nuendo would then compare the edited version—where the file was shortened, moved around, rearranged, etc.—with the original full-length version, which was identical, and apply the same edits to the entire multitrack.

I’m probably dreaming a bit too much. :))

10

Exactly.

Not going to lie, it is a definite workaround for not having a fully synchronized, timecode, EDL, auto conform, process ! But where I work, that is what it is !! haha And it does work.

In my case I usually only have 4 individual tracks to sync with a stereo mix , so less than you, but still enough to frighten a video editor.

However it again makes me wonder if Nuendo shouldn’t be able to sync similar audio events into groups, based just on the audio ( like NLE’s do ). The we could at least use a stereo temp mix event to be the reference to align other audio to. Maybe it is only an edge case.

There’s a thread about it here with some useful third party products which might help you.

11

I think if you start with the entire 2 channel mix, no breaks, and have the editor start with that in the timeline, once all the video edits have been made, you could use auto-conform to make the changes with the original file starting at 1 hour as the first EDL and then the chopped up one being the second EDL to conform to. That might get you what you need.

Ashley

12

Matchbox is the tool for this!

But it would be so good if you could just select a bunch of events in the timeline and change the audio clip they refer to.

It would be a matter of duplicating the edited track and readressing the events in the new track.

Nuendo is already capable of redirecting events to different audio files, it just lacks some specific functionality.

13

Through Re-Conform panel, carefully prepared EDL and events on selected tracks you can achieve this.

14

Oops I missed this very crucial part of the question, and was considering having audio-only.

Yes, Nuendo has a reconform tool that uses EDLs and would allow you to reflect the edits done on one track to the other tracks, provided they are all originally in sync.

15

Etc..

Only if metadata timecode is present…

Fredo

16

Yes, but he only needs the metadata of the one edited track, right? The EDL of the edits will be a Change EDL and the rest of the tracks will be simply chopped up and moved by Nuendo in chunks during the reconform.

17

If the “original” recordings are placed in the project at the timecode they were recorded, then this will work. But I understood that the project is recorded on different recorders.

So yes, that might work.

Fredo

18

I think the main project that needs re-conforming was recorded on one Nuendo session?

19

This is from the OP.

And that brings another problem: If long runs are used, they will all drift.

Fredo

20

Yes, Matchbox is the tool for this, unless all metadata is carried through and you can use an EDL to reconform. Use the stereo mix as reference.

And to Fredo’s point, yes, all cameras and Nuendo need to be Gen/Sync-locked to avoid inevitable sync errors over long takes. If that concerns you!

Mark