Playback + VE Pro Templates for Cremona Quartet (Uploaded)

Hi @Thurisaz, it’s all coming together, I just have one more question. How would I trigger the ricochet and sautille in Dorico? They don’t exist as playing techniques, so do I need to make my own playing technique? I wonder if there’s a way to trigger it with the standard notation of fast notes with staccatos and slurs.

Thanks again for your help!

Hello @GrahamkCampbell,
Are you using Dorico Pro? Ricochet and Sautille should exist. At least they exist in the version I’m using. I can’t remember that I created them myself, nor I mentioned that one has to create them manually in the Documentation attached to the Template. So, they should be there. If they aren’t, you can create them on your own:

Yes, you can do that. Just you need to create a Legato Expression Map Entry, to route it to the Staccato patch and keyswitch and to add Conditions (for reference check the settings for Natural, Note Length - Short, or Very Short):

In the next update of the Expression Maps for Cremona Quartet I will add more things that are missing in the current one. :slight_smile:

Best wishes,
Thurisaz :slight_smile:

Yes, I’m using Pro. In the Edit Playback Techniques dialogue, there is no ricochet or sautille technique, but if I create a new one I do get them as options from the other Edit Playback Techniques dialogue (within the first EPT dialogue). I attached a picture because I realize this sounds really confusing. (the Sautille on the left was created by me, the Sautille on the right was not, and you can see I have yet to create a ricochet on the left).

Very cool, thanks!

Hello @GrahamkCampbell,
Well, yes, Ricochet and Sautille don’t exist inside the panels, but they exist in Dorico at all.
By the way, Ricochet could easily be tricked, by creating Combined Playing Technique in the Expression Maps Legato + Staccato (rename it to Ricochet) and map it to Ricochet KeySwitch.
When it comes to Sautille, there the situation is more delicate, because this technique in fact is Spiccato applied on 16th notes.
Some Expression Maps improvements are going to be needed in order such techniques to be properly mapped and performed.
I really do hope that Daniel and his nice team will add more improvements in this area for Dorico 4! :slight_smile:
Probably when it comes to Sautille, the E.M. Conditions should be able to recognize Note Durations + Tempo. Currently this function works per time basis, which I find not very musical, and it looks more like temp solution.
By the way, you could help a little bit here, if you would like, of course. :slight_smile: Just you have to rise a feature for such improvements. I already asked for many large improvements in this area, and I don’t want to become a needle in the eye of the team. :smiley:

Best wishes,
Thurisaz :slight_smile:

Indeed, I certainly will. I’m just starting to finally get a handle of expression maps, but it looks like they already made a bunch of improvement for 3.5 in this area so I expect we’ll see some good things in 4.

Hi @GrahamkCampbell,
Here is set of Expression Maps with improved Ricochet and Sautille:
Cremona String Quartet (5.3 KB)

It works nice. Just you have to edit the Ricochet speed inside the library according to your preferences.


Best wishes,
Thurisaz :slight_smile:

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Much appreciated, I’ll check it out!

I asked on the NI forum about how to trigger Con Sordino. It is true that it cannot be triggered by command, but you can assign it to each selected technique individually and save to a separate slot. Now that there are 32 slots available, there is space for a reasonably extensive setup in a single instance.

Does this mean that I can Cremona Quartet only when my computer has at least 34 GB of RAM?

Hi @lupus2,
If you would like to use the full template created by me, you would definitely need more than 34GB.
After all you need a dedicated RAM memory for the Operating System, Dorico and VE Pro themselves.
Depends on the memory slots of the Motherboard, on some systems it is possible to have 48GB of RAM by combining sticks of different sizes.
I would, personally, recommend you to increase your RAM up to, at least, 64GB.

Another option is to create a custom Cremona template that uses only the Close Mics. That way you will be able to vastly reduce the RAM usage. Then you should control the space by using the Stage feature in Dorico 5.

Best wishes,
Thurisaz :slight_smile:

And that would be using the playback template created by me (based upon your own expression maps)
I’ll send the links if you request them!

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Hello @MarcLarcher,

Yes, feel free to share your version of the Expression Maps and Playback Template with all of us here. :slight_smile:
Since I shared the ones I made for free, well I’m not obligated to support and improve them in the future. Anyone here is welcome to improve and update them. :slight_smile:
Especially since you made a “lighter” version that takes lesser RAM. :slight_smile:
Just share all the details about it here. :slight_smile:
Btw, since I bought VI Dimension Strings Bundle, I stopped using Cremona Quartet.
Cremona Quartet has one of the finest instruments on the planet, it’s full of articulations, but unfortunately not well enough recorded and designed. The Dimension Strings sound far much better and natural.

Best wishes,


Hi Thurisaz,

I’ll be looking forward to your EMs for Dimension Strings!

Hi @wcreed,
Bill, there are EMs for the VI Pro Dimension Strings by Symphonic-Riot.

The guys at @symphonic-riot are constantly improving them with every major Dorico release.
Well, the set costs some money, but Dimension Strings is probably the most complex string library on the market. The creation of properly working EMs takes serious amount of time.
I would recommend you to use this set of EMs for Dimension Strings. :slight_smile:

Best wishes,

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Yes, I do have those, but trying to move to all Synchron. I’m hoping Symphonic Riot starts creating those at some point

Ok !

So here’s a Dorico file with the Cremona quartet loaded. Let me know if you find mistakes in those two scores.
Cremona quartet demo file

Here’s the folder that should go into the user’s Dorico 5/EndpointsConfigs folder (on mac, it’s ~/Library/Application Support/Steinberg/Dorico 5)


Not sure if the Kontakt side is useful (because it might already be present in the former folder), this folder contains the nkm files where each instrument is configured so that the articulations are set to the appropriate MIDI notes for the expression map to work flawlessly :
nkm files


Wow, thank you for sharing this, Marc! And two great pieces to showcase–I didn’t know that Puccini.

In order to get this set up on my (5.0.20 Win 11, Kontakt 7) system, I did need to use your nkm files. For other folks who would like to load this, you can drag an nkm file directly onto Kontakt. It will complain that it can’t find the samples, but you can tell Kontakt where your Native Instruments samples directories are and it will find them. One other note, the second violin and cello were set to MIDI channel 2 in Kontakt, so I had to set them to channel 1 and all played back.

Looking forward to diving into the expression map. One thing that I noticed is that it doesn’t use CC11 for secondary dynamics–was that something you tried and decided against? (In the instruments, CC1 controls dynamics and CC11 controls expression.)

I have a version of Beethoven op. 135 that I’ve been working on with my own expression map, happy to share.

Thanks again!

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Thanks for the feedback. I did not take any real decision inside the expression map (except when CC1 is added as an additional expression controller, especially when it was not loud enough, like natural very shorts), Thurisaz made that whole expression map, basically. But feel free to experiment and share your conclusions here, if we can make this a better instrument, it’s all the best for everyone who paid for it (I suppose it should be e-instruments or NI’s duty… but we cannot wait forever, right?)
BTW, do you have the same behavior I get on the spots I’ve commented in the Debussy piece (long notes played short)? I don’t understand what’s going on there…


Hi @MarcLarcher,
I’ve noticed a similar behavior with the Dimension Strings in Dorico 5.
Please, check the playback template in Dorico 4.
Some changes were made in the Expression Maps in Dorico 5, so, probably the cause is there?!
We should notify @dspreadbury about this behavior. Do we need to update all our Expression Maps?!

Best wishes,
Thurisaz :slight_smile:

What’s funny here is that the Key editor is showing that the note is long and that the playback technique involved shows it’s a long note…
[Edit] I suppose the problem came from a channel change left in the expression map, I thought I removed them all but this one was hanging there…