Why is nearly every response in the forum condescending?

I’m new to Cubase, and as such have been searching around this forum occasionally to find answers to questions I have. I guess I’m spoiled with communities like Stack Overflow. Not only do most of the replies in this forum fail to answer the question (often replying with more questions that further complicate the issue, or telling the user that they need new hardware), but they frequently tease the user for how little knowledge they have with Cubase. I’ve looked through about 8 or 9 questions (which I realize is a small sample size) but seriously %100 of them have had responses that are unhelpful or condescending.

Here’s my little sample:
https://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=23397
https://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=61734
https://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtopic.php?p=172805

What’s up with you guys? Treat new users with respect. Know how to answer questions before you just respond with a bunch of fluff that leads to no solution. Be excited there are more people joining the Cubase community! From what I can tell, this is a stellar product! Why does it have to be such a grind for people to get answers to their questions? Hint: it’s not that their questions are worded poorly.

Also this interface looks like it belongs in Windows 95. Hard to trust there’s up-to-date and reliable content on a website that looks like it should have gone down with the dot-com bubble. Just saying. :neutral_face:

Feel free to provide condescending and meaningless responses to this question. Get it all out here so you can provide clear meaningful responses to actual user needs :wink:

Hopefully this isn’t the experience of everyone here, and that I just somehow stumbled across the rare occasions of people being douche bags. Hopefully most folks are getting answers to their questions. I’ve just experienced this sort of elitist and rudeness from Cubase users through this site, which thus far has made me question whether Cubase is worth it. Crossing my fingers this isn’t the case for everyone.

Cheers and such.

With respect here MusicMan1061.

I have just read the posts you linked to and can find nothing condescending at all.
By its very nature Cubase is a highly sophisticated ‘piece of kit’… Many of us on here are old enough to remember and have worked with analogue equipment and are able to realise that what ‘back in the day’ would have filled several rooms with hardware… i.e. tape machines, patch bays, myriad and multiple racks stuffed to the gills with a plethora of processors such as compressors, reverbs, delays, envelope shapers etc.
I used to work in television for a small local production company many years ago who produced their own commercial output as well as providing news gathering for the BBC.
On my first day at work my boss took me into what was then the edit suite, which was a room about 20 feet square and full of broadcast quality video gear… things like Sony Betacam video machines and all the associated periphery such as edit controllers, several computers running things like Mickey and Matisse (editing and video graphics software), all the audio equipment, video and audio mixing desks, video and audio monitoring systems etc
He then said to me… ‘right mat, i want you to unhook everything, case up the betacam machines because we need them in the OB unit for the next job and move everything into the next room’… bear in mind the most sophisticated bit of kit i’d used up to that point was an old Tascam porta one 4 track, one or two vhs video cameras and a couple of cheap reverbs from tandy or similar… i’m not afraid to say that i was absolutely terrified! i felt the old sphincter twitch and almost walked out there and then… i asked him if he was joking and he looked at me and said… ‘look, i know you’re good with a soldering iron and you’re clearly a smart lad (i had just turned 20 at the time) it might look scary but by the time you’ve unhooked, unsoldered every connection you’ll start to have a grasp of how it goes together and i’ll be there to help you if you get stuck’… fair enough i thought.

two weeks passed and the job was done! at the end of it i knew every single connection and joint in the entire system because i had done them personally and realised exactly what Geoff my boss had done, the old dog! :wink:

The point i’m making here is that although you have a basic version of cubase if it were to be replaced with the equivalent hardware and you were to walk into the room containing it as i did all those years ago your expectations would be MASSIVELY different. I spent MANY months poring over manuals and drawing diagrams of the signal flows to help me understand better, of course Geoff was there to help me with things such as how to use a vector-scope and how to synchronise video signals etc. After a couple of months i understood fully what he had done and why he had done it… at no point did i refer to him as a ‘douche bag’ or similar because he, quite rightly, placed the responsibility onto my shoulders.
Very often a rhetorical question is designed to make one THINK about something rather than just spoon feeding someone an answer… you’re much more likely to acquire a deeper understanding if you have to figure something out for yourself… I’ve had this on more than one occasion when asking a question here myself, most recently on pan law https://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=198&t=93147.
Again with respect here, as you state you are new to cubase so clearly there will be things that ‘you don’t know that you don’t know’ as it were so naturally it’s down to the individual to spend some time on at least the very basics such as VST connections etc to familiarise… By it’s very nature even the most basic version of Cubase IS highly sophisticated… more sophisticated than the first DAW i worked on back in around 1998 or so and it’s pretty much ‘given away’ with various audio interfaces.

If some one were to just tell you what action to perform then it’s highly unlikely that you, or anyone else’ would actually understand what was occurring, it’s highly unlikely that every project you work on will be identical so the steps you take on project A could be completely irrelevant on project B, C and D if you follow me?
Those that accept this are genrally able to go on to become conversant and skilled enough to be able to produce meaningful output with their systems… those that either can’t or won’t accept this invariably end up selling up and paying someone else to do it for them… i can think of at least two people i know personally in ‘real life’ that have done this.

now i COULD take a condescending tone with yourself as it’s quite clear that your problems are clearly down to your own lack of experience, i’ll bite my tongue at the other phrase i WAS going to use in regard to the tone of your post. For a first post you’re not making a particularly good impression i’m afraid.

No one is going to ‘spoon feed’ you here i’m afraid and what’s wrong with that?

Now i’ve taken a fair amount of my own time this morning to try and help you to understand your own situation, far more time than it would take you to hit the manual (you have the most basic version of cubase there so it’s not the biggest manual out there) or to search online for videos to help you. We ALL have to start somewhere…


It’s down to you…

I’m sorry you feel that way MusicMan, but like Matjones I don’t actually see much wrong with the topics you posted.
Sure, not every question might be relevant, and not every suggestion will prove to be the solution, but that’s the nature of a user forum.
I also see nothing wrong with pointing people to the manual if their question is clearly answered there. That’s not condescending, that’s efficient.

You know, in all honesty you guys have a really good point. I guess I’m just too used to quick answers to little questions. That seems to be a product of this generation and how we tend to get quick informational solutions via Google, online communities, and the like. It seems to spawn this unnecessary and unjustified sense of entitlement to information. I’ll take your feedback as valuable advice :slight_smile:

Not that this matters too much, but I’ve ended up finding solutions to all of my questions thus far through my own trial and error. I was irritated that this forum didn’t provide quick solutions, but at the end of the day, was able to work through the issues and figure them out on my own. I guess this forum just isn’t really for me, but it’s all good.

Hope I didn’t ruin anyone’s morning. By the sounds of it, you guys seem like hard-working and responsible dudes. I respect and admire that.

Good on you, people who realise that they may have been wrong about something are extremely rare on the internet these days :wink: I’ll have to applaud that.

Anyway, I’m glad you found the solutions to your problems in the end, even if not through these forums.
If you ever run into a problem again, don’t be afraid to post your question here. There will be a pack of wolves ready to tear you apart :stuck_out_tongue:.
In all seriousness, most people on here are very nice and likeminded musicians/audio engineers. Sure, there may be some who come across as blunt and disrespectful, but that’s a minority and I like to believe it’s not so different from any other user forum.

Best of luck to you, whether you decide to return here or not!

(PS: as convenient as quick and easy answers might be, putting some effort in yourself might sometimes prove to be more rewarding in the end, and you might learn some more in the process. Just a thought)

Hey MusicMan!

Thanks! i’m glad you took my reply in the spirit it was intended…
I wouldn’t write this forum off completely… on the whole it’s an excellent community…yeah you get the odd kn0bhead but that’s the same in RL, on the whole i’ve found this place to be highly rewarding and a worthwhile place to visit whilst i’m having my breakfast most mornings :smiley:
There are some REALLY talented and highly experienced people on here who are only too glad to help others in the right direction of all abilities… but as i can see you’ve now realised it kind of runs on the ‘tough love’ principle :wink:

I take your point about quick answers but there really is no substitute for experience and as you stated that goes against the grain of current society’s ‘now now now’ attitude which, unfortunately, doesn’t seem to be getting any better.

I have a feeling we might be seeing you again at some point though :wink:

Dont forget the lunatic fringe… https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_Nq3xuHkgE
:open_mouth:

Thanks matjones… for saving me a lot of typing :smiley:

PS. I am still amazed that someone/many on forum like this are using 30 minutes to write the question, then wait even for “days” for the answer, when they could have found the answer in the manual in a couple of minutes :confused: :astonished: :open_mouth: :blush:

NO excuse to NOT use the Manual (I didn’t say read from cover to cover, I said USE the Manual)… as a reference. You will probably get a better answer there than from the “average Joe” in here. I’m all in for RTFM :mrgreen:

I agree some people here can be condescending, down right rude and high horsed. I have come across it myself. But some of us OLDIES don’t like reading PDFs. I have two paperback books and am reading them from front to back an d front again and it doesn’t help that the person who writ the book (pun intended for any Dick John and Harry’s out there) has not used the same picture that you are looking at on screen. Same goes for the Cubase 9 Pro and Halion 6 and Sonic 3 manuals. But something that I was looking for last week and it wracked my brains as to where to find it looking at the online manual. what I did find I wasn’t convinced that it was the correct part of the software. Today I found and lost what I had learned last week. C’est la vie! Anyways the point I am making is the online manual is very lax and lacking any direction. IF you want to make a cut down version of the manual for quick reference all fine and good but don’t get it down to the point where the substance if what was meant to be imparted to someone is lost. Also I spotted a glaring error in that the picture in one part of the manual was not from version 9 but a slightly older version.

I have written manuals myself and I wrote them to make the user understand what the point is, how to use and end result. I do it in such a way that the end user doesn’t have to come back to me. Now I wrote manuals for complicated databases. Where someone at the company who writes the software understands it and knows what the logic is not everyone is going to. Developers and code writers forget the audience they have in front of them. If you through a load of code at someone they will run a mile but if you have 1 Setting up your connections to CB X Pro From the File new>something or other>something or other then the person learning will be able to get to xyz a lot quicker. If the waffle is cut down to the minimum.

My only gripe with the Cubase 9 Pro is someone who wrote the manual didn’t necessarily wrote it in English in the first place as their is some really bad English in it as with Halion 6. (I used an example or their in stead if there!). I cant say much more on this as I am struggling still six versions on from Cubase 6. I gave up asking questions after the grief it gave me. But the people who give grief have to think “I was there once lets help out” however simple the question.

Try and find a useful template online and you will be inundated with people who will write you one for $150 per hour. But it is of no use if it doesn’t have the settings of lets say a realistic oboe. How do you do that with the basic sounds that HSO has? You have paid someone or doing what you could have done yourself playing about. I actually downloaded one of the supposedly $150 ph templates to find what was in front of me was no different to what you can chuck out of CB9 anyway. I didn’t pay $150 by the way. It didn’t have any VST parts just AUDIO not even midi.

In respect of one of your questions although it might have seemed too easy to some, new comers might find that they are not seeing for the first time what is in the manual. A quick note to a forum one would have expected someone to say you see here etc… if you do this you will get this. That’s how it works with other software I have dealt with, TROLLS were most certainly booted out f those forums.

Well in the post I’m quoted in, I can see I gave the poster the answer he needed and indeed he took the time to thank us.
I can detect no condescending tone?

What the bloomin eck are you talkin about?..this forum never fails to help!
it’s been great to me…don’t be so touchy man!! :slight_smile: :slight_smile:

What’s wrong with this forum software and look? Your dot.com bubble remark is vague and not very pragmatic.
It’s one of the most powerful I’ve seen (ability to parse in code, do attchments, format, etc.).
It’s got the fastest and most advanced search features I’ve seen yet.
It’s got a great thread tracking system.
It’s got a good Private Message system.
It’s well organized and easy to see and use.
The color and font scheme is well researched and easy on the eyes.
It’s logically laid out in multiple languages according to international standards, and easy to use.

To me it looks like a system put together by engineers and academics…as in people that must look at and use software all day. This is a good thing. Too much of the ‘modern’ software has been designed by marketing folks instead of tool users and psychologists.

Windows 95 was pretty darn good…as it was based on user studies, and built by people who actually had to work with the stuff at least 8 hours a day.

I’ve seen some of the so called ‘modern’ forums and they are simply lacking. Some are so weak that it’s as if they want to discourage or stifle hosting and moderating a user community. They no longer look at user experience and an online community as a ‘strategic asset’. Consequently, it’s true that you’ll find fewer ‘condescending posts’ in some of them, because people simply aren’t using the ‘new and improved forums’ as much since they suck so bad. Instead people opt for third party forums elsewhere.

Here’s an example of ‘progress’ for you.

“Old and outdated MakeMusic Forum” http://forums.makemusic.com/viewforum.php?f=6

“New and Improved MakeMusic Forum” https://makemusic.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/community/topics/200575788-Garritan-General-Discussion?sort_by=recent_activity

Notice how the ‘new and improved’ one doesn’t even have a decent search engine. It’s ONLY advantage to ‘users’ it that it might look and work a little better if one is trying to ‘post’ with a smartphone, but as an information composer and database, it is ‘regressive’.

Many of our most loved software is ‘regressing’ as well. Companies are stripping out ‘good documentation policies’ and legacy support (not good if you’re running an operation that’s been around for decades and must ‘integrate’ the old with the new), and ‘pushed’ forcing ‘app store’ approaches where THE USER has less and less control. Case in point, I now need dozens of silly add-ons to get any of the leading browsers to come even close to what the old Opera Presto engine could do 15 years ago.

As for condescending posts, I’ve been on this forum for quite some time. I sometimes see what you’re talking about in short sporadic episodes, but I don’t think it’s the case for the majority of posts. If you want to cherry pick and display the examples of bad ones, we could also make long lists of excellent ones (but some of us have other important things to do)!

As for hardware/driver issues. Such threads usually do not start out as condescending. It just ramps up when people try to offer personal experiences and the OP refuses to even listen. It’s a frustrating thing indeed.

People ask for screen shots…they don’t happen…OP just complains more.

Give step by step instructions on how to run diagnostics, and ask for the logs. They don’t happen…just more complaining.

People offer step by step procedures to trouble shoot system components. Again…often ignored by OP, while they keep saying things like, “My ‘other daw’ doesn’t do this!”.

Again, it’s sporadic, and people most inclined to attempt to offer help on a particular topic have already been through the ‘frustration’ process. Most are pretty easy going until the point their ‘help’ is outright ‘attacked’ by an oversensitive OP in full out frustration and denial mode with an issue.

Open ended questions can lead to very open ended responses. Skip the stuff that doesn’t help, and just ask more questions. For the most part, OP is responsible for managing the tone of his own thread.

Hi,

Just seconding the positive comments by MatJones, Brian Roland, Northwoods and some others. I’ve found these forums to be highly useful. I’m still a relatively new Cubase user and new to the Forums. I’ve seen a few snarky posts, but they are few and far between.

I very much appreciate that the company makes this space available to the users and allows a professional level, frank, open discussion of Cubase and the wider industry. I think there’s a good tone to the forums. The moderators moderate and don’t attempt to control content, but, its greatest strength is that there are some highly skilled and talented people who post here. There’s ample fun and kidding around as well as more detailed discussions. All in all, IMHO, Cubase forums are a great space.

Respectfully yours,

Stephen

“Stackoverflow”? Isn’t that one of the sites where the handful of western IT bods lucky enough to keep their jobs unfathomly bail out the hopeless cheap labour who have put their ex-colleagues out if a job? :open_mouth:

If you finde the tone here condescending, try stackoverflow.com once… “stackoverflow” could be a superlative of “condescending” (thats why I avoid it).

I understand why you may find some comments condescending but it might be your personal reaction to people’s tone of writing. The good thing with forums is that you may receive tonnes of suggestions so it’s up to you to consider the good ones and ignore the douche bags.