(Edit: Calling this an FX Matrix Insert now, to avoid confusion with FX Chain Presets)
It’s time.
I think instead of Steinberg releasing their own VST Plugin Chain Wrapper, they design something that is just integrated into Cubase engine/Insert system.
It would allow users to insert Chain FX Presets into a single slot
Users could name their Chains/FX Chain FX Matrix Preset name would show as the insert name.
Fixing problematic source material can often take up all inserts on a source channel
It allows user to select multiple inserts with plugins on them, and condense them into a chain automatically ordered in the chain as they were on the insert bus, freeing up insert space.
It allows users to re-order multiple groups of plugins quickly, ie I’ll have multiple stages of processing on a channel and I organize those plugins with empty insert spacers.
It allows for A/B for multiple plugins and changes across multiple plugins, rather than only individual
It allows for easier copy/pasting/dragging of multiple plugins to other channels of which might already have other unrelated inserts on them.
It allows users to have a variety of chains FX Matrixes templated/loaded onto for example, the Mains Bus of which they can quickly bypass audition different chains, re-order them, etc.
It allows users to create an Channel FX Chain Preset of multiple Insert Chains FX Matrixes
It helps keep the MixConsole for users less cluttered with FX that are meant for single sources contained within their channel inserts, and leaves FX channels in MixConsole for more traditional multi-source FX (Room Reverb, etc)
Tied into Cubendos Plugin Manager/Lists
There’s very cool additional features that Chains could have integrated.
Integrated modulators
Hover over Insert plugin overview (would show you which plugins are contained and in order)
Input/Output gain for the entire chain (gain staging)(Auto-Gain akin to LetiMix GainMatch)
Mix Level for the entire chain FX Matrix
Mix Level for individual inserts within the chain FX Matrix
Integrated Internal Send/Returns
This would allow FX Chain Presets FX Matrix Presets, to really be a complete sound “package”. Ie, a users post-processing on an FX such as reverb, doesn’t need to be serial affecting the dry.
Parallel/Serial processing
M/S Processing
L/R separated inserts
Complex matrixes can be created
Sends can be returned either to a return in the serial, or the final output stage of the chainer
Integrated Quick Controls
The current problem with Cubase is - what the user creates does not have an easy pathway to being contained and saved as a single entity…
You have FX on separate channels
You have modulators that are sort of an exterior controller not on the channel
If you run out of Inserts, you have to create a serial connection to a group channel.
Sometimes I have very complex processing topology that spreads across multiple channels, sends, group sums, etc. The only way to contain all of this is by using Track Archive which:
Isn’t integrated preset system that shows up in MediaBay
Annoying and complex to create from an existing project (channels might be all over the place)
Is not as cool, efficient, flexible, immediate, adaptable, transferable, saveable, loadable, versatile, instant, inspirable, motivational as what I have described.
This would improve things for
Mix engineers who do FX heavy mixes
Mix engineers working with problematic source material/restoration
Mastering Engineers
Sound Designers - Video Games/Post-Production/etc
Experimentation
Electronic musicians/producers
Everyone who has been asking for ‘Mix’ level per insert slot
Every who appreciates work efficiency, saving presets, templates.
Clients, getting them to hearing a variety of sounds faster which might have complex chains.
Huge competitive feature, this would make other DAW users jealous.
To be able to quickly load a preset like this and instantly hear the sound, the thing you created that does that thing - and not have to use some unstable 3rd party wrapper which doesn’t have DAW integrated features… would be fantastic.
FX sends would get real fun. Sound-Design will be faster. Creativity will be faster.
No objections to this feature request, but, FWIW, I’ve had pretty good luck with doing most of what is outlined here on the functional needs with Waves StudioVerse Audio Effects.
The key thing that it probably couldn’t cover on the functional side is embedding modulators within a preset. You also can’t just hover over the plugin and have it show you what’s inside – you need to open up the plugin instance to do that. It also wouldn’t be able to use Cubase’s plugins that don’t conform to the VST3 standard, which is, in my view, a limitation of Cubase’s plugins more than the third-party plugin-hosting plugin. (I don’t personally use many of Cubase’s built-in plugins because I already had lots of third-party plugins prior to moving to Cubase from SONAR, and I’ve added quite a few since then.) But in can handle most of the rest, and it’s been very stable in my experience.
Kind of related, but one thing Waves instrument plugin cannot do, is load multiple EXTERNAL(not waves flavored) instruments in a single chain…Oh how I wish it could!
I haven’t used the particular one you’ve mentioned
But there could be all sorts of benefits to being integrated and deeper. Being tied into Cubases side-chaining system and having that integrated to all the inserts within a Chain. Tied into Cubases Plugin manager instead of depending on the 3rd Party VST Wrappers plugin manager/search.
And a more modern logical intuitive GUI, modern UX that is complimentary of the Cubase GUI/UX.
To be honest, I haven’t played much with StudioVerse Instruments, but I see that you’re correct that it can’t do non-Waves VST3 instruments.
I have used the StudioVerse Effects (and prior to that StudioRack), which can load third party VST3 effects (Instruments can also load the effects, but not the instruments) a fair bit, mostly for scenarios where I want a complex plugin chain and/or routing on a single instrument (or potentially audio) track, rather than having to have a bunch of effects and/or group tracks to do a similar thing.
Not to confuse it with FX Chain/Presets in the regular insert sense.
Because this new feature - should also be able to load regular FX Chain Presets.
Also, I was thinking about how Missing Plugins could be handled if they are within an FX Matrix Insert (that’s the one I’m going with),
Apart from the project open warning, I think if FX Matrix Insert is missing, it has the ! exclamation mark on the the channel insert as it does now, and is maybe coloured differently as a warning, but the FX Matrix Insert and non-missing inserts within would still function. The user would have to open up the FX Matrix Insert to resolve the missing plugin.
Personally, I would love the OP’s feature request of an integrated native plugin chainer kind of feature, BUT I think the chances of Steinberg working on this are next to zero because there are already so many good third-party solutions on the market.
But yes, count me in, I would love this, BUT I’m very realistic about this, and the answer for NOW, TODAY, without WAITING, is already here, and @awesomeaudio already listed my favorite one, which is DDMF Metaplugin. Highly recommended. Worth every penny. Second choice would be Blue Cat stuff (there are a few cool options they make that do different varieties of this with different routing, etc.).
Are these solutions as good as what the OP wants? Nope. The OP’s suggestion would indeed be great. But DDMF and Blue Cat will get you mostly to a similar finish line in style, lots of nice workflows TODAY, for a reasonable cost.
There’s a few main benefits to Steinberg doing it, making it worth the investment imo:
Multi-Destination Distribution of the Side-Chain (So far Steinberg are the only ones to leverage this that I’ve seen in the entire plugin market, see: Stock plugin Frequency2.
Cubendos Plugin-Manager would be integrated into the actual FX Matrix Insert itself.
MediaBay/.vstpresets could be browsed from within the FX Matrix Insert.
FX Chain Presets/Track Presets as FX Chain Presets could be loaded within the FX Matrix Insert.
Yeah, those are all good points and lovely ideas. Again, I’m in. I am also realistic about it, and I don’t think it’s gonna happen any time soon. I’m not trying to be a downer though. I’ve been through the long-wait-hope-ask-long-wait-time-grayhair-older-backaches-waiting Steinberg process, and I would not want to get my hopes up about this one. But is it a good idea? Heck yeah. Until then, DDMF or Blue Cat.
Hmm, I’ll have to try again when I get a chance. However, before posting my comment on that, I did try having it scan VST3 plugins (thinking it should be able to do this), and all that showed up (inside StudioVerse Instruments) was the VST3 audio plugins, not VST3 instruments. Maybe I was missing something in the scanning or results observing in my quick test.
Yes, and that is where I looked. Or at least I’m pretty sure of that.
However, I just loaded it up again (no rescanning), and I see that it is now showing the instruments. I wonder if maybe it required unloading and reloading StudioVerse Instruments to have the instruments show up.
In any event, I stand corrected on this. Still not sure I’m likely to use it (whereas I definitely do use the effects to deal with some complex routing scenarios), but maybe next time I’m wanting to blend synth pads, rather than doing it at the Cubase level (or using Analog Lab if I’m only wanting to use a couple of Arturia instruments)…
Side note: In just checking this now, I noticed (really just accidentally due to the instrument I tried to load first) that it doesn’t work properly with Roland Cloud instruments:
I tried with all three of the ones I have (D-50, EARTH Piano, and the free version of Zenology), with the same sort visual result in Zenology and D-50 – EARTH Piano didn’t even put up the blank screen. Both Zenology and D-50 did actually make sound (EARTH Piano doesn’t), but of course you can’t change the default sound it puts up.
Also, after playing around a bit with switching instruments, with D-50 in the slot, StudioVerse Instruments/D-50 crashed Cubase (15.0.10), showing exception code 0xc0000005 and failure bucket ID INVALID_POINTER_READ_c0000005_D-50(VST3_64bit).vst3!Unknown.
I tried a few other random VST3 instruments (one each from Arturia, NI, and UAD) that did seem to work as would be expected.
Their Cloud interfaces for doing anything is pretty infuriating in its non-intuitiveness.
As for the products themselves, I haven’t used them all that much. I got (permanent copy of) EARTH Piano first – you had to become a (free) Cloud member to be able to install it, mainly due to a good introductory price and my sentimental attachment to Roland hardware pianos (MKS-20 was my main piano module for many years, but I also had their Rhodes MK 88 as my main piano controller for a long time, and loads of Roland MIDI modules). I thought I’d end up using it here and there – not for acoustic pianos, but for something needing to cut through a pop/rock mix. Haven’t ended up using it yet, though, and it was way too heavy on CPU for my old Win10 system, where even playing simple things would break up. (It’s okay on my new Win10 system.)
They included the free version of Zenology with the Cloud membership. It’s useful – reminds me a bit of the MT-32 I had years back, and there are a few sounds in it that I like for specific purposes (e.g. a vocal “doo” patch).
I’d been interested in the D-50 for a long time, hoping Arturia would do an emulation, so, when that went on sale for something like $50 recently, I picked it up. I haven’t used it on a project yet, but I did play around with the sounds quite a bit, and it’s just a fun blast from the past that I’m sure I’ll be using at some point.
I haven’t had reliability issues with those instruments to the little degree I’ve used them. However, their user interfaces are horrible!!! They’re like having a small version of hardware interface – not very readable, and certainly not up to modern software-based patch selection convenience.
Until then, DDMF or Blue Cat.
