Lost in Translation

Hi forum,

in Dorico I am often lost because the help function in the German version doesn’t work at all. And it’s also really hard to find any key word in the German manual. Often I just fail finding the right words for functions I’m looking for. If there wasn’t the really really helpful Dorico forum I probably quit working with Dorico a while ago. Thanks to all helpful members! And yes, it’s still a rather new App and learning takes time, I know.

But as the forum is so important, the problem for Germans is: it’s in English. Not hard to write and read in English for most of us but all menu entries in the German Dorico are different, and when I read somewhere that I have to open the Layout-Options and look for “Flows” there’s nothing like that in my version. I can find “Layout-Optionen” but the Flows are named “Partien” in German which I would translate back to “Parts” or “Chapters” but never think about “Flow”. It’s just an example but it happens over and over. Meanwhile I know that “Enharmonische Verwechslung” is “respelling” in English but it literally took me hours to investigate! Even online dictonaries didn’t help. The German translation in Dorico is “Umdeuten anhand des Notennamens darüber/darunter”. Back to English this would be “Reinterpret along the note name above/below”. Ehm… really? Not to mention the translation of the German note name “Es” (English Eb) to “E (Be)” for transposing instruments. Even Google translation does it better. I often have to interrupt my work to restart Dorico in English just to find out the original name of a function.

OK, lot’s of words (sorry) but here’s my wish:

I’d really love to have a list of all menue items and key commands side by side in German and English as a PDF sheet. The translator probably needs it for his/her work anyway so it might be heplful to publish this list on the forum? It would make it so much easier to follow or search the forum! Probably useful for users of other languages too. And native speaking musicians could help if there are translation mistakes or obscurities.

Thanks a lot for reading,

Greetings from Frankfurt/Germany

Saxer

I think that localized-from-the-English-language software should have a toggle (some “hot key”) to temporarily change the interface to English, so that one using a non-English version can quickly see what that menu item is in English. Then going to a forum or help function that is all in English would at least be possible.

In fact, I’ve wished for bi-lingual interfaces, but I guess that’d be a nightmare to make the text fit.

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I absolutely agree with saxer.
Also in the transpose section f. E. the translation is so confusing and unprecise that it makes things unnecessarily difficult.
And maybe also in the English version there are non-music expression that’s why they can’t be translated correctly.
To change this… And offering the shortcut list would be really really helpful.

And for sure a clearer workflow.
The same shortcuts for the same procedure in different windows and on different subjects.

As far as I can make out, it is currently impossible to preface a stave with for instance, “Horn in B”. Even having negotiated the mock German “Horn (H Be)” in creating the instrument, the name in the score is given as “Horn in Bb”. Similarly F# is represented in the list of instruments as “F kreutz”!

My sympathies are with native German speakers who have to negotiate this learning curve, many of whom will perhaps not be able to participate fully in this forum!

David

Only Lillie and her staff could say whether this is practical and how long it would take to implement, but would it be useful in the non-English manuals to have the English term follow the native language term in parentheses (at least in headings or in major entries of the Index) in the manuals?


(Unfortunately I cannot seem easily to access a foreign language manual to illustrate what I mean.)

Yes, that would be a great help!

I’ll definitely make a note of it as a suggestion, but also be aware that, in some ways similar to the app development, the answer to questions like “How hard would it be to do X in the manual?” is often “harder than it sounds” - the Steinberg manuals are more complicated than a text document. Similarly, searching/finding information using a range of terms can be hard - I try to include relevant synonyms in the English manual at least once, but not all languages have the same number of synonyms for the same items, and this can cause real headaches in the translation process.

What we want is obviously for users to be able to use and look up information about Dorico in their native language, where that is available. We are aware of areas in the localised manuals thus far where the translation could be improved - work on this has already been happening, and we hope to publish v3 localised docs in the very near future.

An option already available that might be similar, though, is to use the online help and look at the url - the file name of the current page is always the English file name, for all languages. For example, the matching url for the topic you screenshot Derrek is: https://steinberg.help/dorico_pro/v3/en/dorico/topics/notation_reference/notation_reference_cues_hiding_showing_in_layouts_t.html - from that you could perhaps pick out some of the key terms?

Please leave your same comment in this thread, too:
https://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=246&t=179758

I have faminiarity with note names (for classical music) used in Japan. To my memory it follows the Deutsch standards:

[English] C-flat C C# D-flat D D# E-flat E E# F-flat F F# G-flat G G# A-flat A A# B-flat B
[Deutsch] Ces C Cis Des D Dis Es E Eis Fes F Fis Ges G Gis As A Ais B H

Is this right?

P.S.: I guess that “kreutz” sounds might be a little bit insulting. I heard a lot of this word spoken by US army characters in Call of Duty: WWII.

in Dorico I am often lost because the help function in the German version doesn’t work at all. And it’s also really hard to find any key word in the German manual.

Well Saxer, that’s why I work with the english version alltogether …
and on top of that I started out to make an exel sheet, where all the menues are listed (see: this thread: https://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=246&t=151896&p=816497#p816497
Sorry I’m not yet in Dorico 3 because my new Computer hasn’t arived yet.

Yes. Your list of of equivalent note names is correct for German. Unfortunately, the programmers do not all seem to be aware of this.

“Kreuz” (not Kreutz, my spelling slip – the two would sound the same) is German for “cross” or a musical sharp sign (#). But, unlike English does not form part of the name of a key (as in “F-sharp minor” of “F# minor”).

I think you are confusing it with “Krauts”, which is a not nice term used by some soldiers and others for Germans. We dont need to go there!

David

Okay, looks like this set of pitch name should be applied into Japanese localization, too.
However, only notations for classical music in Japan follows Deutsch standard. Popular music notations use pitch names in English-American convention.
Therefore, my feature request of asking the Dorico team to provide at least two sets of pitch name setup for Japanese localization of Dorico.

(Actually, three. The third one (katakana pitch names) is “Ha Ni Ho He To Yi Ro” (ハニホヘトイロ) which corresponds to “C D E F G A B”, “Ei & Hen” (嬰&変) corresponds to “Sharp & Flat”. For example: “Des moll” = “D-flat Minor” = “変ニ短調”. However, the katakana pitch names are only used when talking about what key a composition is written in.)

Message from Daniel on Twitter regarding pitch names:

https://twitter.com/dspreadbury/status/1236052811349200898
We’re unlikely to be working on this in the near future, but > it’s part of a wider issue concerning note names in the different language versions of the software that is waiting for us to address it.