Most important feature requests for Dorico 4

to be honest, I agree. Using an octave line is generally the most elegant solution for short passages. I do like to change the clef for the piano but not very often otherwise.

In the third octave, flute fingerings get really goofy, so non-professional players may not be so agile in that octave to start with. And dealing with 5 or more ledger lines adds to the complication. We need to be really careful when calling for passages in that register (either flute or piccolo.). If it is a technical flute passage in that range, that may be a good reason to call for an instrument change to piccolo. And in the third octave on piccolo, youā€™re inviting a stampede of St Bernards. :slight_smile:

I agree that if the engraver feels the ledger lines are too much in a given passage, 100% of the time, an 8va line is better than a clef change. But before writing anything that is extreme like that, consult with an expert flautist.

Dance of the Mirlitons is a great example. It goes to the 4th ledger line and I donā€™t think any flute player would want it any other way. Above that level, there may be some choices to make.

Schoenbergā€™s Gurrelieder came up in the Guess the Score FB group recently. Iā€™m not sure if itā€™s possible to develop tinnitus just by looking at a picc part, but if so this piece would do it.

This was particularly amusing:

I might have a shot at making that it if we changed the pp to fff, doubled the tempo, and changed the ties to breath marks. :joy:

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:joy::rofl::grin:

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Circular breathing at that altitude is easy and helps with the pp.

I would suggest that for Dorico 4, perhaps:

  • Add a default key command to hide/show signposts.
  • Remove the default key command Alt-S for Solo Selected Instruments. Perhaps replace it with a three-key combination that is harder to press accidentally.

As a new user, pressing Alt-S was responsible for a lot of confusion as it was easy to press accidentally while figuring out Doricoā€™s key commands. Without any visual cue that I had enabled a solo state, I was confused for a fair while as to why playback failed.

In other news, I am really excited for Dorico 4.

Iā€™ve assigned F10 to show/hide signposts so long ago that I forgot it wasnā€™t a default commandā€¦!

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My main request would be an option in the properties panel to vertically flip laissez vibrer ties, like this:

Full support for ties into bar repeats or slash regions would be great eventually.

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And if I remember correctly, this is for four (!) piccolos in unison. Generally the players will cover the instrument with some sort of cloth to mute the sound a bit.

Stillā€¦

Iā€™m not a flautist but I spend much of my time accompanying flautists. Four ledger lines is remarkably normal: check this set of audition excerpts from the National Youth Orchestra of Scotland - https://www.nyos.co.uk/files/5b743831a76bd-fluteexcerpts2018.pdf, for instance.
In the past week Iā€™ve recorded the Dutilleux and Sancan Sonatines and Jolivet Chant de Linos with conservatoire students (itā€™s mostly recordings rather than recitals this year) - all of these Paris Conservatoire test pieces contain octave lines but in places hit five or six ledger lines.

Thatā€™s not to say that notation from eighty years ago is necessarily perceived as ā€œcorrectā€, but current students and professional flautists are very used to reading five ledger lines.

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Control Z for me.

+1. Iā€™m just a doubler so might not have as much knowledge of the repertoire as a more serious player, but most flute music just uses ledger lines up to high C. Above that is much more infrequent and will use 8va. Some very famous exercises like the Taffanel/Gaubert #1 and #2 use 8va, but I imagine thatā€™s to fit more on a page, and no one is really reading that anyway once the pattern is established. The remainder of the book just uses ledger lines.

Rampal plays an F at the end of the Ibert. Itā€™s a C in the score, but I imagine that would use 8va if notated. Everyone who has ever done a club date knows how to finger a high D for Oye Como Va, LOL! (6 ledger lines) Iā€™ve done quite a few Richard EgĆ¼es transcriptions from his Orquesta AragĆ³n recordings where Iā€™ve given up and used 8va, but really anything up to C is fine as written.

And Iā€™ve had a stream deck XL with shortcuts for so long that I forgot too.

My understanding is many non-keyboard players prefer ledger lines to 8va. It has to do with fingering patterns. On a keyboard, fingering rarely changes with octaves.

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Trombone players in the US never see anything except bass clef with ledger lines as needed, until they start playing orchestral music, so it is common to see 3 or 4 ledger lines. High orchestral parts are typically written in alto clef for Trb1 and tenor clef for Trb2, and engravers are free to switch between alto-bass and tenor-bass at their liberty, in order to make the music fit the page better. You will rarely see anything but bass clef in concert band music, unless the composer writes with a British accent, in which case they will write it like a trumpet part and God only knows why.

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Isnā€™t there some story about David Baker (when he was playing Tbn) sending Curtis Fuller as a sub, but giving him all the parts in tenor clef? That way Curtis would be able to make it through the gig, but not well enough to take the gig, LOL!

I was Slide Hamptonā€™s copyist for years, and he occasionally used 8va notation. Hereā€™s part of the Trombone 1A part to Lester Leaps In from the 2nd World of Trombones recording:

I was especially honored that he asked me to arrange Dolphin Dance for that live recording too. The lead part got pretty high so I used 8va on that as well:

At rehearsal, I remember Slide was messing around and took the B up an octave when the lead player was struggling with the F#! (B out of the treble clef) Thatā€™s pretty crazy considering he was playing a such a large bore horn.

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Flute players I have discussed this with have always expressed a preference for ledger lines rather than 8va signs, claiming that it is easier to read because of the different fingerings from the octave below. If it were just a case of opening one hole to take the music up an octave, 8va would be much easier to read. I suspect that, since Fl. 1. is at the very top of the score and is therefore not going to run into another part, engravers did not find this a problem.

David

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Right, and in jazz, high solo parts (almost never in ensemble parts) are often switched to non-transposing treble clef. That is OK because people playing that idiom should be used to playing from T.C. fake books.

But weā€™re talking about a small number of players here. People coming up through school band programs never see this stuff ā€“ but they also donā€™t play in that register (octave above middle C.)

Yes, Slide is an amazing musician. In later life, he seemed to have a preference for much larger bores than just about any other jazz player uses. I saw him about 10 years ago in a show that included Bill Watrous, Steve Turre and Curtis Fuller. Do you know if Slide is still playing now?

I talked to him a couple of weeks ago. He seemed in good spirits! Heā€™s still writing and practicing, although he hasnā€™t performed publicly in quite some time. I was supposed to play lead alto in his big band for a weekend at Dizzyā€™s two years ago. We had a half dozen rehearsals, then about a month before the gig there was some sort of blow up, he fired his manager, and the gig got cancelled. AFAIK he hasnā€™t performed publicly since.

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