Note grouping question

Hi,
I’ve tried many combinations under notation options but I cannot get the note on beat 2 of this bar of 4/4 to tie across the barline. Help!

Thanks

Darren

In cases like this you can use „Force Duration“ which is invoked by pressing O (the „clamp“ icon will be lit). So to write this rhythm you would type:

O
6 [pitch]
66 [pitch]
5 [pitch]
6 [pitch]

Hitting a number key twice is a fast shorthand to get a dotted value.

Thanks will try it when I get home.
Seems like Dorico is glitchy in this - I’ve never come across this issue before!

There’s plenty of options to ‘split at the half-bar’ that should fix this.

Darren

But yes: this one should give you what you want:

Not sure, what’s happening …

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In addition, it seems that the grouping of notes (and the resulting beaming or tied notes) is highly dependent on the way in which the time is defined when the metric is created.
For example, 4/4 entered in Popover will not give the same result as [1+1+1+1]/4, depending on the preferences requested in the notation options.
It would be useful if someone would one day do a trial of all the possible combinations in order to get a better grasp of this type of result in groupings.
Perhaps I’ll get round to experimenting with these various interactions, and I’ll post the report if no-one else has done so before me, as these grouping problems are a frequent source of questions on this forum.
To be continued.

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I doubt that your screenshot is Dorico’s default.

Hopefully, the setting that @meixner mentioned will do the trick. If not, upload a small version of your project and we can check your settings.

I have to confess being confused as I read this thread. It seems from your OP that you want to split the dotted quarter in beat 2, since you speak of tying. But…what do you mean by “barline?” Are you talking about tying across the half-bar?

If so, then it seems like you want this:

What am I missing/misunderstanding?

There is a bug that has crept into the current version regarding this. (See this thread, or this thread, for example) The method of assigning the time sig really shouldn’t matter at all, but apparently it currently does.

If you use the Hub or the right panel to assign the time sig, it seems like there are some Notation Options baked into the meter that won’t update if you make changes to them. The safest way to make sure your Notation Options are being respected seems to be deleting any existing time sigs that weren’t created with the popover, and re-inputting them using the popover.

Hopefully the devs will get this sorted out soon as the grouping options are causing daily posts on the FB groups too. Some of those are ex-Finale users who don’t understand the options, but some are a result of the options not actually being correctly applied. New users are obviously more likely to input time sigs from the Hub or the right panel as they are still learning all the popovers.

This all makes sense - I hip
They can squash the bug! I am a recent Finale convert, but I am using (and liking) the popovers.

Ah, maybe i completely misunderstood the post and made a confusing mess in the discussion - sorry for that!

Time — and @dazzjazz’s response — will tell, @meixner. But nothing to worry about, since we’re all here trying to understand and help clarify things for one another. (Though I confess, I was also worried I misunderstood — and not for the first time!) A solution will nt doubt emerge when we know what the OP is hoping to achieve.

I confirm.
After fews tests :
If you input with factory settings (réglage A) the quarter will be tied to a quaver (normal), but if you ask for the « réglage B », nothing different : not normal.
Unless… unless you enter a meter like this : [1+1+1+1]/4 in the Popover.
So, that setting does not work at all if we assign a meter via the panel, or typing 4/4 in the Popover. [edit at 18:16] : after some others tests, sometime the setting works at first time, but not after, for other new inputting. :thinking:

Nonetheless, if you set the « réglage B » for this other point (see capture below), the quarter will be dotted, according to the whish of many users.
Weird, because this setting concern a dotted quarter localised on the first beat, and not the second one.

I understand better now if you say that the bug has been officially recognised, because a lot of us are pulling our hair out over this Wild-Tie (the tie of Halloween). But the « bug » is also here in version 5.51 (I have not downloaded the 5.1.60)

This is rather unusual for the Dorico team. Bugs happen with all software. They do take these things seriously, but this particular bug seems to be elusive. It is unfortunate that this happened just as so many colleagues are coming over from Finale because it is very disorienting when the options don’t seem to produce the results that are expected.

You’re right : fixing this seemingly random bug isn’t easy, I suppose, and it shouldn’t lead to another, more annoying one.

For the moment, we can get around it using the « force duration » command.
But this becomes more important when this setting is assigned to an imported file, because the time spent correcting this becomes more considerable.

Yes, sorry, I meant the half-bar.

I have a real aversion to the force duration command, but some people don’t mind using it. I think this bug is often remedied by deleting the time sig and entering it again from the popover. That will usually be a lot less work than force duration. But to each, his own.

These are my current settings

Hmm, strange…

Did you try @FredGUnn’s suggestion above?

if that doesn’t fix it, does anything change if you shorten the dotted quarter then extend it back out to the full duration?

And I suppose I should also ask: was this an import or created from scratch in Dorico?

I understand.
However, many enlightened members of this forum use it and have passed it on to me as a solution.
In any case, the settings proposed in the Notation Options of the Library menu don’t work, or only react one time out of ten.

Yes, indeed.
Tests carried out in all possible combinations :

  • If we enter the metre via a hub template, or if we enter the metre via the right-hand panel, the Notation Options don’t work.
  • If we enter the metre via the Popover, they do work.

So it’s a bug between the options and the panel and/or template interface.
While waiting for this to be corrected, if we wish to start from a template, it is best not to enter any Time Signature and then to enter it after creating the score with the Popover.

I’ve tried using force duration and I get the same undesirable result.
Anything else I can try?