Playback + VE Pro Templates for Cremona Quartet (Uploaded)

String position is CC21, bow change through a keyswitch , portamento with higher velocity, vibrato CC15 etc – do I need to go on (this is from the manual on the cello) ? If a library was not programmable, it would be useless for anything other than live playing and probably wouldn’t sell. If it’s programmable in Logic or Cubase, it’s almost certainly programmable in Dorico the same basic way looking fairly briefly into the documentation that the CSS solo strings are. Despite being officially “incompatible”, I’m pretty happy with two large-scale works I programmed for CSS SS and see no reason why the same couldn’t be done for Cremona until someone proves the contrary.

Unfortunately, listening to the tutorial and demos, I think the sound is too cold for my taste though could work nicely for early music and there are some rather beautiful faster articulations.

@dko22 hello,
Well, some of the parameters are programmable but not all. For example “Con Sordino” isn’t factory assigned, nor even can be assigned to any controller… Would be far better if we can switch between “Fingered, Bowed, Runs and Portamento” by using CCs, this would reduce the number of library instances per instrument.
Surely they need to do some improvements on the interface. :slight_smile:

Best wishes,
Thurisaz

I’m sure you’re right that there could be interface improvements, I’ve really just tried to familiarise myself with the basics. As for con sord, I can’t find a controller either. Obviously it takes several seconds to attach mutes so mostly entire movements or sections will be played in this way but how you’re supposed to record the changes in a DAW or Dorico on this one, I have no idea!

Obviously the developers should make any parameter which might change during the course of the work assignable in some way. I’m with you on that one.

@dspreadbury and @John_at_Steinberg hello,
I’m almost ready with the template for Cremona Quartet + VE Pro. There are just very few things that I can’t make them work. So, I will need just a little help from someone of you to fix the problems.
Тhe main problem is the Glissando/Portamento assignment. Unfortunately I can’t make it works.
I had tried to use “on events”, or “off events”, but I can’t make the expression map to trigger the Keyswitch for Sustain Portamento and Marcato Portamento.
Just tell me to whom I should send the files. :slight_smile:

Тhank you very much in advance! :slight_smile:

Best wishes,
Thurisaz

You’re probably better off emailing John than me, since he’s much more experienced in working on playback templates than I am. However, I don’t think John actually has the Cremona Quartet library, so the extent to which he would be able to help might be limited by that. Anyway, you can drop him a line at j dot barron at steinberg dot de, but please be patient when it comes to a response. Everybody has been enjoying some welcome time off over the Christmas and New Year period and I’m sure he will have a hefty workload of things to work through when he returns to work next week.

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Happy New Year, dear colleagues! :slight_smile:
I wish long life, good health, happiness, music, passion and success to all of you! :slight_smile:
Here is my present for you:
Template for the awesome Cremona String Quartet Library. :slight_smile:
The whole needed information could be found in the Cremona Quartet and VE Pro README.pdf

Here is the zip file which includes - Project, VE Pro Template, Dorico Playback Template and README:
Cremona String Quartet + VE Pro Playback Template
The zip file is bigger than the size allowed by the forum, so it is uploaded on Dropbox

N.B: 24.01.2021 - I did an Expression Maps and Playback Template update /Legato+Thrill (half -step) and Legato+Thrill (whole-step)/
Cremona String Quartet EM_PT.zip (8.3 KB)

I wish successful year to all of you! :slight_smile:

Best wishes,
Thurisaz

5 Likes

Thanks, Thurisaz. This is so generous of you!

Uploaded for you here: Dorico + Cremona Quartet.doricolib
Cremona Quartet.doricolib.zip (2.1 KB)

In KONTAKT:

Set Dynamic to CONTROLLER, not Velocity.

Preset mapping for Stradivari and Guarneri Violin:
Natural C1
Detache bowed D1
Staccato E1
Pizz. F1

Preset mapping for Amati Viola:
Natural C0
Detache bowed D0
Staccato E0
Pizz. F0

Preset mapping for Amati Viola:
Natural C-1
Detache bowed D-1
Staccato E-1
Pizz. F-1

Other settings can be adjusted individually. Make sure that the playing style is assigned to the correct keyswitch under Expression maps in Dorico.

In DORICO:

Import under expression maps the file i have uploaded above.
Check there if Volume Dynamics are set to Control Change: 1.
Under PLAY set MIDI CC11 per each instrument for playing instructions.
Also check on the right, under VST Instruments and assign the individual expression maps to KONTAKT for each instrument.

Attention: When changing the playing style, notate the dynamics! This is because it does not take over the dynamics of the previous playing style.

I’ve just spent three days to figure this all out, as i just started to work with external VSTs. So please excuse me, if something is not quite correct.

Have fun!
lisa

Hello @Lisa_Mo,
Pretty nice that you had spent some time working on another template for Cremona Quartet! :slight_smile:
You didn’t have wasting your time on doing it. The only thing you needed to do is follow the README for the template created by me, to map the articulations exactly as they are on the screenshots in the document and use the Updated playback template. :slight_smile:
These steps can be done even for creation of a smaller template, because the one I had created is full and takes more than 34GB of RAM. The one created by you looks much smaller, according to the list of techniques. :slight_smile:
Thank you for providing an alternative template for this library! :slight_smile:

Best wishes,
Thurisaz

Sorry for a dumb question- but is it possible to use your Cremona expression map without VE Pro? Or has anyone made one?

Just a note to report that the Cremona quartet has been updated. Each instance can now host up to 32 articulations. This will allow a much easier management via expression map, and even allow for a full quartet to sit inside the same Kontakt instance.

Paolo

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@Paolo_T and @GrahamkCampbell hello,

Yes, you are right about that the whole quartet could now be hosted within a single instance of Kontakt.
Currently I don’t have enough time to work on Expression Maps update for Cremona Quartet.
When I have some free time, I will update it. For now you can use the current one. It works fine. :slight_smile:

Yes, you can use the Expression Maps without VE Pro, just you have to re-create the instrument patches and the articulation ordering according to the Cremona Quartet and VE Pro README.pdf, in order to match the Expression Maps settings.
As I said earlier in this comment, I will make an update as soon as I have enough time to dedicate for this job. But I can’t promise exactly when it will happen. I have many projects to work on.

Best wishes,
Thurisaz :slight_smile:

Ok, thanks!

Greetings,
Thank you for making the expression map Thurisaz, it’s working well. There are a few things I’m confused about, and I’m hoping somebody can shed some light:

  1. I’m assuming if I don’t add any playing techniques, the expression map will default to natural? In this case, natural is set to keyswitch E1 (sustain fingered). However, if I don’t add any playing techniques, I get F1 (sustained runs). Even if I manually add the nat playing technique, I get E1 instead of F1. Am I missing something?
  2. I don’t quite understand the purpose of the Init switch. On every expression map in Dorico, it’s empty (no actions). What’s the difference between Init and natural?

I figured it out, I didn’t see the natural note length switches.

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Hello @GrahamkCampbell,

Sorry for the delayed reply, I was outside the city the whole day. :slight_smile:

You already figured out what causes the Expression Maps to default to KeySwitch - F1. It’s exactly the speed of the performance and it is the Expression Maps Conditions. If you write longer note duration, or slower tempo it will default to E1.

Init is empty by default, but its purpose is to ensure that when the performance of articulation ends Dorico will default the playback to Natural. :slight_smile:

Best wishes,
Thurisaz :slight_smile:

2 Likes

Hi @Thurisaz, it’s all coming together, I just have one more question. How would I trigger the ricochet and sautille in Dorico? They don’t exist as playing techniques, so do I need to make my own playing technique? I wonder if there’s a way to trigger it with the standard notation of fast notes with staccatos and slurs.

Thanks again for your help!

Hello @GrahamkCampbell,
Are you using Dorico Pro? Ricochet and Sautille should exist. At least they exist in the version I’m using. I can’t remember that I created them myself, nor I mentioned that one has to create them manually in the Documentation attached to the Template. So, they should be there. If they aren’t, you can create them on your own:

Yes, you can do that. Just you need to create a Legato Expression Map Entry, to route it to the Staccato patch and keyswitch and to add Conditions (for reference check the settings for Natural, Note Length - Short, or Very Short):

In the next update of the Expression Maps for Cremona Quartet I will add more things that are missing in the current one. :slight_smile:

Best wishes,
Thurisaz :slight_smile:

Yes, I’m using Pro. In the Edit Playback Techniques dialogue, there is no ricochet or sautille technique, but if I create a new one I do get them as options from the other Edit Playback Techniques dialogue (within the first EPT dialogue). I attached a picture because I realize this sounds really confusing. (the Sautille on the left was created by me, the Sautille on the right was not, and you can see I have yet to create a ricochet on the left).

Very cool, thanks!

Hello @GrahamkCampbell,
Well, yes, Ricochet and Sautille don’t exist inside the panels, but they exist in Dorico at all.
By the way, Ricochet could easily be tricked, by creating Combined Playing Technique in the Expression Maps Legato + Staccato (rename it to Ricochet) and map it to Ricochet KeySwitch.
When it comes to Sautille, there the situation is more delicate, because this technique in fact is Spiccato applied on 16th notes.
Some Expression Maps improvements are going to be needed in order such techniques to be properly mapped and performed.
I really do hope that Daniel and his nice team will add more improvements in this area for Dorico 4! :slight_smile:
Probably when it comes to Sautille, the E.M. Conditions should be able to recognize Note Durations + Tempo. Currently this function works per time basis, which I find not very musical, and it looks more like temp solution.
By the way, you could help a little bit here, if you would like, of course. :slight_smile: Just you have to rise a feature for such improvements. I already asked for many large improvements in this area, and I don’t want to become a needle in the eye of the team. :smiley:

Best wishes,
Thurisaz :slight_smile: