Does the Lounge have to be so meh?

Steinberg Lounge
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Let’s assume that most people here are creators. Many are here to learn more about the possibilities that Cubase offers and quite a few of these share their work. The latter means being vulnerable enough to let others hear what may be very personal and there are those who showcase exquisite talents.

Why, however, do we pass by so many offerings without leaving a comment?

I understand that we all have our preferred modes of music and, like in the whole industry, we have our favourites and those we feel more comfortable engaging with. Surely, though, the Lounge is a place where we can give more, especially to those who are starting out. Sharing is hard enough without the fear of receiving no feedback at all which, to me, is the worst outcome.
Constructive criticism is helpful. It may well be that some of us can’t take it but that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t offer advice if we have the ability to do so. Importantly, there are plenty here who do.

Plus, there are those who won’t comment on others work if they don’t receive comments themselves. Well, that’s a recipe for going nowhere.

So, a challenge to you all. Find the time and the grace to listen to a ‘made-with-steinberg’ post and make a comment – good or not so. Then challenge yourself to do the same once a week or as often as you can. Then, perhaps, the Lounge can move forward with confidence.

All the best
Jonathan

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Little Cracks final mix (hopefully)
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Hi Jonathan,

I agree. The Steinberg Lounge offers a great opportunity to share songs and to exchange constructive criticism. I’m with you.

Truth be told, I am one of these users who tend to be very careful with feedback. I find it difficult to pick the right words not knowing who’s on the other end and where they are coming from experience-wise. There are a lot of things that need to be taken into account if a feedback is supposed to be constructive in my opinion. But that’s probably just me.

Moreover, don’t forget: The number of visitors in the Steinberg Lounge is quite low compared to other branches within this forum. Yeah, maybe this could change. Nonetheless, many users focus on technical aspects related to their soft- or hardware. So that’s another thing to keep in mind - there are just not as many people around here as there are in the Cubase forum for example.

Nonetheless, I think that you have raised an important and relevant question here, Jonathan :+1:. Much appreciated.
I would love to hear how others feel about it!

EDIT: I took your advice and left a comment on “made with Steinberg”. Tiny steps..:wink:

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Tiny steps are still good steps. Thank you. May it encourage others.
Jonathan

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I will admit and agree that the “Lounge” has always been sort of a dead spot in this forum. There just doesn’t seem to be a lot of off-topic chatter like you find in other forums.

As far as other members showcasing there music and requesting feedback; most of what I’ve seen and listened to is mostly music that is not in my taste’s radar. I have commented on a couple of submissions and sometimes even when the style has no interest to me I may comment on the recordings technical merits. But I guess the main reason I don’t comment more is that most of what I see posted isn’t something that I could tell if it was good or if it was bad.

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Hi Easto,
Thanks for your input.

Actually, expanding your taste radar can make your own music even better. And, developing an opinion on work which you’re not so sure about can be validating for the creator. Acknowledging others’ existence is important. A response makes that happen.

All the best
Jonathan

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Sometimes I am a little reluctant to express my opinion TBH. There is a fine line between being constructive and offending people…

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Understood… but if we all felt that way then no-one would make a comment on anything which would make everything pointless.
I was once (very long ago) accused of being precious when I made a fuss to a fellow band member about having a song worked on. That person spat the dummy and walked out as if I wasn’t worth their wasted effort. On reflection, I was a bit quick to say something but only because I had been given no warning. I turned up to a rehearsal and heard the big changes being made to something very personal. I always wondered if I had been more patient then maybe the song and the band would have developed further.
It was a really good lesson for me, though, about being open to suggestions and, hopefully, I’ve listened better ever since. I’ve certainly learned more from taking in other points of view.
That’s the absolute benefit from sharing. None of us are really immune from a critical review but if we are genuine, we will learn from it. In the end, I’m asking Some Composer to take a step forward and share a thought. You never know, you just might be the key to helping someone make a great song or piece of music. If, on the other hand, there is an issue, then the reality is that it’s the receiver who has the problem, not you.
All the best
Jonathan

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Ahhhh yesss, bands, humanity’s most elaborate sociological experiment. I get it, band wise, of course, you have to say something (with consequences , most of the time), but here is the Internet…I don’t know these folks here, and I don’t want to sound like a smart***

Also, there are some people here that are doing this for fun, and I judge from a professional point of view, where do you start and where do you put a limit to what you can say? It’s tricky.

I like praising people when I hear stuff I like.

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Pro or amateur, serious or fun, I try to treat everyone the same way. Praising is fine but even the least skilled among us wants to know how to make their work better.

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Many Cubase users use the Cubase category of the forums rather than the Steinberg Lounge to explore what Cubase offers. The “Lounge” is not only for Cubase users.

“we” sometimes listen and just don’t have a feeling one way or another. “we” sometimes just listen and it’s not the type of thing that “we” feel comfortable making a comment about, although “we” might have enjoyed the content. In these cases, a simple “like” of the post seems to be a good thing to do.

You seem to assume that everybody posting something that has been “Made With Steinberg” is in search of some kind of professional evaluation. I think this mindset is exactly why more folks don’t share their work. Just my opinion, of course.

I enjoyed the last generation of the forums more when the Made With Steinberg was it’s own thing apart from the Lounge.

Anyway, the Lounge will never be what it once was (for better or worse, I’m not sure). I’m going for “worse”, though! :wink: Damn, I miss those wild west days! :grin:

Opinions differ, of course …

Anyway, the interest just isn’t around anymore. Sad, fast moving times. Take what you can get. Don’t try to force others into a situation. Blah, blah, woof, woof! :upside_down_face:

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Little Cracks final mix (hopefully)
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Blah Blah, indeed. All valid, I suppose. It just seems a bit weird that people post work for a comment but don’t feel that giving one is as important. Modern times etc.
Well, I’ll keep at it.

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Seems like you initiated a new spirit @moggs. The lounge is more vibrant with songs and feedback than it has been in a long time :slight_smile:

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I have posted a few songs over the years and most have slid down the list with no comments.

You can read this in a couple of ways. One they don’t like what you have produced and don’t want to be negative or they can’t think of what to say. It is good to give or get feedback to improve your craft.

I know myself the styles of recorded music on this forum can be vast in genres and taste. If I don’t like a certain style of music composition I would probably let it pass by quietly without offending the composer. Anyway that’s my two cents worth! :slightly_smiling_face:

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I’ve posted stuff here and the comments are generally positive (thank you, my friends).
But for me, most music today I find bland, irritating, derivative, boring, repetitive, goes nowhere (as in select any part of the track and it sounds the same, it could be the end, the middle, the start, all the same). And I don’t just mean here in the Lounge, I mean old, new and current big names.
I think I’m what might be called “jaded”. Other people may be in the same state.
So I don’t normally comment here, unless I have something good to say.

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Very kind of you to include me in the progress of the lounge.

Mind you, I’ve not been here very often and, in recent months, have hardly worked at any new music, so my input has been almost zero. (I’m only responding here because I received an email and realised just how long it’s been!)

Whether any feel competent enough or care enough for the music shouldn’t be the reason to or not to comment. Acknowledging existence goes a long way making better things happen. In the end, it’s up to the collective to make it work.

All the best

Jonathan

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I’m just one (very unimportant) forum participant, but oddly enough, I’ve never been particularly interested in mixing artistic community discussions with technical community discussions.

i.e. When I’ve participated in artistic sharing (and/or collaboration) communities, that community was inhabited by artists using very different tools/technology. And when participating in technical communities, that community was working in widely different genres.

For example,

  • sharing and discussing music makes more sense to me, when it’s not only Cubase users, but also users of any other DAW (or tape machines :slight_smile: )

  • sharing and discussing Cubase tricks makes more sense to me, when it’s not only pop/electronica/whatever music makers, but also orchestral composers and even other audio creators like voice-over artists, podcast editors, etc.

I’m actually mildly curious why anyone would post their music here, rather than in places with much larger potential audiences.

And whatever small motivation I had to listen to music posted here got totally killed by the increased use of AI generated visuals cover-art and/or video. I find those are not only distracting from the human effort that goes into making music with a DAW, but a real emotional turn-off.

I’m more likely to invest my time and emotional energy into someone who draws very amateurish art manually to accompany their (hopefully decent) music, than seeing yet more visual prompt vomit output. AI visuals give me similar creeps to the unbearably bland elevator music of the 1980s.

I’d be much more motivated to watch and comment if the music video was effectively telling a “how it was made” story while playing the song/work.

So rather than a video being a “look at me” / MTV wannabe product that makes more sense for music consumers than fellow music makers, it would also offer something to the listener/watcher of the music video that’s directly and somewhat exclusively relevant to fellow music makers in this specific forum (plus maybe those, who are “Cubase curious”).

Or in other words, if someone makes a video specifically relevant for fellow Cubase (Nuendo, Dorico, etc. ) users, rather than just dumping copying YouTube/Instagram/TikTok content here, I’d be much more motivated to give it a decent listen/watch and leave a like and/or comment.

Maybe that could give rise to interesting conversations about the various workflows and their merits, rather than just a friendly-pat-on-the-head supportive comment.

p.s. All of the above are just my “sample size of 1” subjective thoughts, and not a claim to represent a universal truth, majority opinion, or even shared sentiment with anyone else. :slight_smile:

p.p.s. Writing and editing this post was a lived experience of “grumpy-old-man-shakes-fist-at-clouds” being soooo much easier than trying to come up with and articulate (hopefully) more nuanced explanations and constructive ideas.

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Having a space to post but not posting rough drafts is a missed opportunity I think. You get feedback for free.

I will be posting some too, but I’ve been busy with other things so far.
There’s some things in life that are extra sensitive for people. Cooking, music, and a few other things. Not sure why tho.

Does He Bite
Does He Bite300×300 22.9 KB

But to make a posting space lively there is one thing that will make it better: Competitions with prizes. That attracts people to try, when they wouldn’t have otherwise.

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Hi Jonathan,

I reckon you’ve hit on something pretty raw and true here. Interesting topic. That feeling of throwing your art into a void… watching a view or play counter tick up (or not!) while the comment section remains completely blank, is possibly the most disheartening part of being a creator today.

It seems to be the universal experience across almost every online platform now. But while we can blame algorithms on the giant public sites, e.g. Youtube etc, a dedicated community like the Lounge is different. Here, the silence likely feels less like an algorithmic glitch and more like social indifference, which potentially stings a lot more - probably more so to newcomers.

I think many of us pass by posts because we don’t always know what to say, or for some, they wait to receive feedback before giving it. But as you rightly said, that’s a recipe for going nowhere. It doesn’t take an expert analysis to bridge that void and I guess sometimes just knowing another human actually heard it is enough to keep someone going.

@Googly_Croft mentioned “jaded”, I can certainly relate - those of us who have been around the block a few times have heard a lot, and it’s easy to feel like there’s nothing new under the sun! I for one have pretty much normalised the ‘void’ experience over many years (even wrote a song about it recently!). But, thinking about that reasoning a little more it is actually, and quite ironically a good example of exactly what feeds that “universal void”. I guess we don’t need to be blown away to leave a comment. A few words of seasoned, constructive guidance, or even just pointing out one specific element that worked, takes very little from an experienced user, but could completely rescue a new creator from the void. Similarly, the argument could also apply to those saying simply not knowing if a track is “good or bad” because it falls outside their preferred style - it’s valid point for sure, but total silence probably doesn’t feel like polite restraint or a mismatch of tastes, for the less ‘jaded and seasoned’ creators, it could just feel like failure to them.

Others allude to the risk of causing offence. That’s a genuine concern too which I totally get… it’s probably not that people are cold or indifferent, it’s that they actually care too much about the impact of their words. They are paralysed by the lack of context. E.g. without knowing if the person on the other end is a 14-year-old who just downloaded Cubase yesterday, or a veteran hobbyist or pro who has been doing this stuff for decades, finding the “right words” can feel like walking through a minefield. However, sitting with that thought for a while I think in these situations, where we don’t know who we’re interacting with, is to just quietly accept we don’t actually need their full biography or need to be experts in their genre of choice, we can sidestep the ‘expert critique’ and just simply offer a human reaction, maybe ask a question about their mix approach on the vocal or whatever.

Anyway, just some random thoughts that seem to have turned into a bit of an essay!

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Good thoughts! i appreciate them :smiling_face_with_sunglasses: .

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Text and post not ideal for giving opinions but is ok for instructions